sp3 will not re boot with a firewire external hard drive attached

Please help.

I have 2 Identical computers. One which had the WD Firewire my book attached
and turned on all the time sp3 was installed has no problems re booting. The
other which had the WD drive off during the sp3 installation will not reboot
if it is later on at the time of the boot. Once xp up and running WD drive
can be attached as normal but must be off for boot ups. Uninstalling and re
installing sp3 with it on doesn't help still won't re boot with it on.

"paul" <paul@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:0F6597FA-2BBA-4F64-951F-CED4DF15FEEA@microsoft.com...
> Please help.
>
> I have 2 Identical computers. One which had the WD Firewire my book
> attached
> and turned on all the time sp3 was installed has no problems re booting.
> The
> other which had the WD drive off during the sp3 installation will not
> reboot
> if it is later on at the time of the boot. Once xp up and running WD drive
> can be attached as normal but must be off for boot ups. Uninstalling and
> re
> installing sp3 with it on doesn't help still won't re boot with it on.

This is known issue with XP (it isn't necessarily SP3 that is causing this).
The exact mechanism seems to be obscure because I am not aware of anyone who
has pinned it down with any certainty. It has been conjectured that the
nature of the problem suggests that XP is identifying the external disk as
bootable when it isn't and, of course, can't boot from it. There are other
more esoteric theories involving non compliant USB hubs - but that doesn't
explain why firewire drives are affected as well). What the mechanism is,
at present, is anyone's guess, because I have noticed this happening with
external disks that I know don't have (or ever have had) master boot records
on them. Yet other XP machines work quite happily even though they are
configured to boot from external drives.

The only workaround that I am aware of is to switch off the external drive
when you boot or reboot (It isn't necesary to disconnect it). It can be
switched on again as soon as the Windows XP boot screen appears (the one
with the blue progress indicator on).

This is a sp3 issue it happened imediately after the sp3 install.

"paul" wrote:

> This is a sp3 issue it happened imediately after the sp3 install.

My system has never booted from any except the original drive installed.

"paul" <paul@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:077125C0-A20F-42B6-9DEF-970F760D05F8@microsoft.com...
> This is a sp3 issue it happened imediately after the sp3 install.

It is an XP issue, but it is possible that somehow SP3 created the
conditions on your PC that cause this to happen. Oddly, someone I know who
has installed SP3 recently found to his surprise, that the same fault on his
PC has been cured by the installation of SP3.

The mystery remains.

"paul" <paul@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:0F6597FA-2BBA-4F64-951F-CED4DF15FEEA@microsoft.com...
> Please help.
>
> I have 2 Identical computers. One which had the WD Firewire my book
> attached
> and turned on all the time sp3 was installed has no problems re booting.
> The
> other which had the WD drive off during the sp3 installation will not
> reboot
> if it is later on at the time of the boot. Once xp up and running WD drive
> can be attached as normal but must be off for boot ups. Uninstalling and
> re
> installing sp3 with it on doesn't help still won't re boot with it on.

Paul
If you feel that this is a prob caused by SP3, then research/ask in the
wondowsupdate group where there has been a huge response to SP3.
Also there has been much discussed in the windowsgeneral about SP3.

Antioch

Hi. This problem occurs because windows exposes a BIOS bug.

Some computer BIOS versions have the ability to boot from
external devices. What this means is you have the capability to
boot from an external USB or an external firewire disk-device
that is running at boot.

How this works is the BIOS assigns the external disk-device a
lower Drive Letter than the partitions on the internal disk. As a
result, when starting with the external disk or USB connected,
control is passed to the Boot Sector on the external device,
rather than the Boot Sector on the internal hard disk.

If the Boot Sector on the external device is not active (and it
should NOT be active for a non-OS partition), then the
machine will stall at that point because it cannot continue the
boot process unless an active partition is present.


There are three solutions to this problem:

1. Check to see if a BIOS update is available for your system.
Many times, the above is an oversight on the part of the
BIOS manufacturer. The BIOS logic should recognize the
external device has no boot loader available and set the
system so the internal device with the active boot partition
is used for the boot process.

2. Check to ensure your CMOS settings are correct for the
BIOS on your computer. Some BIOS versions allow you
to enable/disable the external USB/FW device boot feature
or modify the detection parameters for this process.

3. Ensure the firmware in your external USB or Firewire
device is up-to-date. The BIOS detection process for
boot/non-boot capability depends on a valid handshake
between the motherboard BIOS and the USB/FW
firmware. Bugs here can also be part of the problem.


Note: If none of the above solutions work, then your
computer motherboard manufacturer or your
USB/FW device manufacturer has decided
to ignore this problem. At that point, you have
to decide whether you are going to live with the
problem - or you are going to nuke the company
headquarters from orbit as the only valid response
to pissing you off. <grin>


Best I can do for now. <tm>


Bill



paul wrote:
> Please help.
>
> I have 2 Identical computers. One which had the WD Firewire my book
> attached and turned on all the time sp3 was installed has no problems
> re booting. The other which had the WD drive off during the sp3
> installation will not reboot if it is later on at the time of the
> boot. Once xp up and running WD drive can be attached as normal but
> must be off for boot ups. Uninstalling and re installing sp3 with it
> on doesn't help still won't re boot with it on.

Bill Drake wrote:
> Hi. This problem occurs because windows exposes a BIOS bug.
>
> Some computer BIOS versions have the ability to boot from
> external devices. What this means is you have the capability to
> boot from an external USB or an external firewire disk-device
> that is running at boot.
>
> How this works is the BIOS assigns the external disk-device a
> lower Drive Letter than the partitions on the internal disk. As a
> result, when starting with the external disk or USB connected,
> control is passed to the Boot Sector on the external device,
> rather than the Boot Sector on the internal hard disk.
>
> If the Boot Sector on the external device is not active (and it
> should NOT be active for a non-OS partition), then the
> machine will stall at that point because it cannot continue the
> boot process unless an active partition is present.
>
>
> There are three solutions to this problem:
>
> 1. Check to see if a BIOS update is available for your system.
> Many times, the above is an oversight on the part of the
> BIOS manufacturer. The BIOS logic should recognize the
> external device has no boot loader available and set the
> system so the internal device with the active boot partition
> is used for the boot process.
>
> 2. Check to ensure your CMOS settings are correct for the
> BIOS on your computer. Some BIOS versions allow you
> to enable/disable the external USB/FW device boot feature
> or modify the detection parameters for this process.
>
> 3. Ensure the firmware in your external USB or Firewire
> device is up-to-date. The BIOS detection process for
> boot/non-boot capability depends on a valid handshake
> between the motherboard BIOS and the USB/FW
> firmware. Bugs here can also be part of the problem.
>
>
> Note: If none of the above solutions work, then your
> computer motherboard manufacturer or your
> USB/FW device manufacturer has decided
> to ignore this problem. At that point, you have
> to decide whether you are going to live with the
> problem - or you are going to nuke the company
> headquarters from orbit as the only valid response
> to pissing you off. <grin>
>
>
> Best I can do for now. <tm>
>
>
> Bill
>
I have a similar problem in that my HP computer will hang during BiOS
loading if I have my camera SD card inserted. I can access the SD card
if I insert it after booting. Since I only view the card occasionally I
can easily live with this condition. I suppose I could look for a BiOS
update from HP, but it's just not worth the bother and/or risk.

Bill

I am sure it is not the bios, all was well before sp3. Both my computers are
identical with identical bios settings. One which had the WD Firewire my book
attached and turned on all the time sp3 was installed has no problems re
booting. The other which had the WD drive off during the sp3 installation
will not reboot
if it is later on at the time of the boot. Once xp up and running WD drive
can be attached as normal but must be off for boot ups. Uninstalling and re
installing sp3 with it on doesn't help still won't re boot with it on.

http://kadaitcha.cx/firewire.html
A couple of years ago I bought an Icybox IB-351UE - external hd case
http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/Produ...oductID=164979
....and put a 160gb SEagate hd in it, have been using it with a USB lead ever
since because the firewire part wouldn't work at all.

Spent AGES double checking the pin-outs for 1394a pin header on motherboard
before connecting that pin header off to 1394a socket on the front of my 3
1/2" internal card reader - which has USB and firewire sockets on the front
it beside the memory card slots !
....then I abandoned that and bought this card ! (...not from this web-site
though)
http://tekgems.com/Products/la-pci13.htm

My XP Home ed. | Device manager shows two 1394 Net adapters working
properly, though I justut looked and one was disabled | ...enabled it, and
now a network icon for it has appeared in system tray, ...I'll turn that
back off in a minute !

....oooh ! whilst battling with this post, I found myself from long ago:-

<quote>
http://www.eggheadcafe.com/software/...pci-card-.aspx
5xusb- 3x1394 pci card ? :-) - RJK
21-Sep-07 06:42:09

Hello, I bought this one, :-
http://tekgems.com/Products/la-pci13.htm (not from here btw)

....and thought I'd do a little research, and a restore point ! , before
fitting it.
....partly because I have a card reader in a 3 1/4" drive bay connected to a
motherboard USB pin header - drive letters I:\ through L:\ atm
....2 IDE hd's on IDE1 - drives C:\ through H:\
....2 dvd/cd rewriters - drives X:\ and Z:\ (because I got fed up with them
moving around.)
....a USB pen drive that always seems to appear as drive O:\ for some
reason.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en...+vt6214l&meta=
http://www.viaarena.com/default.aspx...0&SubCatID=122
http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/pe...ls/usb/vt6214/
....above links seem to indicate that the two Via VT6306 and VT6214L chips
are already supported in XP (...mine is SP2 updated),

....driver cd that came with it seems to be for something else !
....anyone know what the 2x4 / 8 pin header "JP3" near the internal firewire
port is for ? ...and what the 5 pin header next to the internal USB port is
for :-) !
<end quote>

.....anyhooo, I rarely admit defeat but, "firewire" defeated me !!!!!!!!

regards, Richard


"paul" <paul@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:0F6597FA-2BBA-4F64-951F-CED4DF15FEEA@microsoft.com...
> Please help.
>
> I have 2 Identical computers. One which had the WD Firewire my book
> attached
> and turned on all the time sp3 was installed has no problems re booting.
> The
> other which had the WD drive off during the sp3 installation will not
> reboot
> if it is later on at the time of the boot. Once xp up and running WD drive
> can be attached as normal but must be off for boot ups. Uninstalling and
> re
> installing sp3 with it on doesn't help still won't re boot with it on.

"paul" wrote:

> This is a sp3 issue it happened imediately after the sp3 install.

I have sp2 installed and i have this issue, so can not be a sp3 issue

"Bill Drake" wrote:

> Hi. This problem occurs because windows exposes a BIOS bug.
>
> Some computer BIOS versions have the ability to boot from
> external devices. What this means is you have the capability to
> boot from an external USB or an external firewire disk-device
> that is running at boot.
>
> How this works is the BIOS assigns the external disk-device a
> lower Drive Letter than the partitions on the internal disk. As a
> result, when starting with the external disk or USB connected,
> control is passed to the Boot Sector on the external device,
> rather than the Boot Sector on the internal hard disk.
>
> If the Boot Sector on the external device is not active (and it
> should NOT be active for a non-OS partition), then the
> machine will stall at that point because it cannot continue the
> boot process unless an active partition is present.
>
>
> There are three solutions to this problem:
>
> 1. Check to see if a BIOS update is available for your system.
> Many times, the above is an oversight on the part of the
> BIOS manufacturer. The BIOS logic should recognize the
> external device has no boot loader available and set the
> system so the internal device with the active boot partition
> is used for the boot process.
>
> 2. Check to ensure your CMOS settings are correct for the
> BIOS on your computer. Some BIOS versions allow you
> to enable/disable the external USB/FW device boot feature
> or modify the detection parameters for this process.
>
> 3. Ensure the firmware in your external USB or Firewire
> device is up-to-date. The BIOS detection process for
> boot/non-boot capability depends on a valid handshake
> between the motherboard BIOS and the USB/FW
> firmware. Bugs here can also be part of the problem.
>
>
> Note: If none of the above solutions work, then your
> computer motherboard manufacturer or your
> USB/FW device manufacturer has decided
> to ignore this problem. At that point, you have
> to decide whether you are going to live with the
> problem - or you are going to nuke the company
> headquarters from orbit as the only valid response
> to pissing you off. <grin>
>
>
> Best I can do for now. <tm>
>
>
> Bill
>
>
>
> paul wrote:
> > Please help.
> >
> > I have 2 Identical computers. One which had the WD Firewire my book
> > attached and turned on all the time sp3 was installed has no problems
> > re booting. The other which had the WD drive off during the sp3
> > installation will not reboot if it is later on at the time of the
> > boot. Once xp up and running WD drive can be attached as normal but
> > must be off for boot ups. Uninstalling and re installing sp3 with it
> > on doesn't help still won't re boot with it on.
>
>
>
>
I want to thank you, i went into my bios and turned off boot from usb
device, and I am up and running now, i do not have to unplug (or turn off my
external harddrive) to get my system to boot. again, thank you.

"paul" wrote:

> I am sure it is not the bios, all was well before sp3. Both my computers are
> identical with identical bios settings. One which had the WD Firewire my book
> attached and turned on all the time sp3 was installed has no problems re
> booting. The other which had the WD drive off during the sp3 installation
> will not reboot
> if it is later on at the time of the boot. Once xp up and running WD drive
> can be attached as normal but must be off for boot ups. Uninstalling and re
> installing sp3 with it on doesn't help still won't re boot with it on.

Paul try going into your bios and turning off boot from usb, and i believe
that this will solve your problems.

"paul" wrote:

> Please help.
>
> I have 2 Identical computers. One which had the WD Firewire my book attached
> and turned on all the time sp3 was installed has no problems re booting. The
> other which had the WD drive off during the sp3 installation will not reboot
> if it is later on at the time of the boot. Once xp up and running WD drive
> can be attached as normal but must be off for boot ups. Uninstalling and re
> installing sp3 with it on doesn't help still won't re boot with it on.

I have found that if you go into your bios and turn off boot from usb, then
this problem will disappear, let me know how it works.

"paul" wrote:

> I am sure it is not the bios, all was well before sp3. Both my computers are
> identical with identical bios settings. One which had the WD Firewire my book
> attached and turned on all the time sp3 was installed has no problems re
> booting. The other which had the WD drive off during the sp3 installation
> will not reboot
> if it is later on at the time of the boot. Once xp up and running WD drive
> can be attached as normal but must be off for boot ups. Uninstalling and re
> installing sp3 with it on doesn't help still won't re boot with it on.

Go into your bios and turn off boot from usb device, and see what happens,
it works for me.