Re: Won't boot from SATA drives

Tony MS wrote:
> Paul wrote:
>> Tony MS wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>> If I leave the XP CD in, it simply restarts the XP installation
>>> process afresh. If I take it out, the system hangs after "Verifying
>>> DMI pool data". Yes, tried many times with both SATA HDs
>>>
>>> Also, if I try a floppy boot disk, with the correct SATA driver
>>> renamed as NTBOOTDD.SYS, and modified BOOT.INI, it displays that it
>>> cannot recognise the HD.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Tony MS
>>>
>>
>> Something you might try at this point, is downloading Knoppix
>> (knopper.net)
>> or Ubuntu (ubuntu.com), and booting the computer with that. Both of those
>> Linux OSes can boot from a CD, without needing a hard drive.
>>
>> The objective in that case, would be to see whether you can access the
>> hard
>> drive or not. Both OSes should have an option to install their
>> software to
>> the hard drive on request.
>>
>> While you have that OS running from the CD, you can also erase the
>> beginning
>> of the hard drive. Open a command terminal window in Linux, and try
>> something
>> like:
>>
>> dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hda bs=512 count=10000
>>
>> The only tricky part of the command, is verifying the disk is at /dev/hda
>> or whatever.
>>
>> What a command like that does, is erase the beginning of the hard drive.
>> I have had to do that on occasion, to be able to install an OS on a hard
>> drive. Some OSes do not like to find the remnants of the work that other
>> OSes have done, while installing. Clearing off the first few megabytes
>> of the disk, should blow away any structures at the beginning of the
>> disk. Naturally, don't use that "dd" or disk dump command, if
>> important drives containing data are still connected. To use
>> such a command, make sure that only your Linux boot CD is present,
>> and the single drive you are attempting to fix.
>>
>> If attempts to do things to the disk are failing, it should then
>> be more obvious while using Ubuntu or Knoppix, that you have a
>> hardware problem. For determining hardware health, an alternate
>> environment is a handy thing to have. Both distros are a 700MB
>> download, in the form of an ISO file, and you burn that to a
>> CD using Nero or the like.
>>
>> Paul
>
> Hi Paul
>
> Yes, I do have Knoppix, although I've never learned to drive it properly.
>
> I've effectively done what you suggest, using the Hitachi and Seagate
> diagnostic software, which run on FreeDOS and/or DRDOS. I've used them
> to zero and test the entire disks.
>
> Cheers
>
> Tony

OK, time for a review.

You have an "A7N8X Deluxe" ? It has a SIL3112 chip on it, while the
vanilla A7N8X doesn't have the chip soldered on.

There is a jumper ("Bigdawg" mentioned the jumper). The jumper is for
enable/disable of the SIL3112. We know that works, because you've
been able to do things to the disk(s).

The controller is not on the Southbridge. That means, during install
of Windows, you pressed F6 and installed some kind of SiliconImage
disk driver.

That BIOS is unique, in that the add-in Silicon Image RAID
module in the BIOS, has no configuration done in the main
BIOS screen. So there is no option to select there, such as
RAID or non-RAID.

If you enter the BIOS, and press <control-S>, that is supposed
to bring up the RAID setup screen. I haven't heard you mention
the word RAID, so there would normally be no reason to go in
there. I want you to go in there anyway, to prove that the
SiliconImage module in the BIOS is being loaded during POST startup.
If the module loads, then it is more likely to also be offering
INT 0x13 service, for reading the disks during a boot attempt.
(In some BIOSes, you have to enable something, to get add-in
modules to load, but there is no option I can see in the
Asus manual for that. Which means it is always going to try to
load, at least until it sees that the minimum number of SATA
disks is not installed.)

In the RAID setup screen, you should see your two disks, with
a notation that they aren't RAID or anything. Or maybe they
are RAID ? What configuration were you using, when this
stuff worked ?

Now when I check the manual, and check the last page here, I see
that non-RAID mode is not supported. What driver are you using
in Windows that allows you to see the disk(s). Were they once
a RAID1 mirror array, and now you see two disks ?

http://support.asus.com/technicaldocuments/SiI3112A.pdf

"6 Using Hard Drives as Non-RAID

Drives connected to the Silicon Image RAID connectors do not
support non-RAID function."

Perhaps you could explain a bit more, how you are planning on
setting these up, with your WinXP install.

Paul

Paul wrote:
> Tony MS wrote:
>> Paul wrote:
>>> Tony MS wrote:
>>>
>>>>>
>>>> If I leave the XP CD in, it simply restarts the XP installation
>>>> process afresh. If I take it out, the system hangs after "Verifying
>>>> DMI pool data". Yes, tried many times with both SATA HDs
>>>>
>>>> Also, if I try a floppy boot disk, with the correct SATA driver
>>>> renamed as NTBOOTDD.SYS, and modified BOOT.INI, it displays that it
>>>> cannot recognise the HD.
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> Tony MS
>>>>
>>>
>>> Something you might try at this point, is downloading Knoppix
>>> (knopper.net)
>>> or Ubuntu (ubuntu.com), and booting the computer with that. Both of
>>> those
>>> Linux OSes can boot from a CD, without needing a hard drive.
>>>
>>> The objective in that case, would be to see whether you can access
>>> the hard
>>> drive or not. Both OSes should have an option to install their
>>> software to
>>> the hard drive on request.
>>>
>>> While you have that OS running from the CD, you can also erase the
>>> beginning
>>> of the hard drive. Open a command terminal window in Linux, and try
>>> something
>>> like:
>>>
>>> dd if=/dev/zero of=/dev/hda bs=512 count=10000
>>>
>>> The only tricky part of the command, is verifying the disk is at
>>> /dev/hda
>>> or whatever.
>>>
>>> What a command like that does, is erase the beginning of the hard drive.
>>> I have had to do that on occasion, to be able to install an OS on a hard
>>> drive. Some OSes do not like to find the remnants of the work that other
>>> OSes have done, while installing. Clearing off the first few megabytes
>>> of the disk, should blow away any structures at the beginning of the
>>> disk. Naturally, don't use that "dd" or disk dump command, if
>>> important drives containing data are still connected. To use
>>> such a command, make sure that only your Linux boot CD is present,
>>> and the single drive you are attempting to fix.
>>>
>>> If attempts to do things to the disk are failing, it should then
>>> be more obvious while using Ubuntu or Knoppix, that you have a
>>> hardware problem. For determining hardware health, an alternate
>>> environment is a handy thing to have. Both distros are a 700MB
>>> download, in the form of an ISO file, and you burn that to a
>>> CD using Nero or the like.
>>>
>>> Paul
>>
>> Hi Paul
>>
>> Yes, I do have Knoppix, although I've never learned to drive it properly.
>>
>> I've effectively done what you suggest, using the Hitachi and Seagate
>> diagnostic software, which run on FreeDOS and/or DRDOS. I've used them
>> to zero and test the entire disks.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Tony
>
> OK, time for a review.
>
> You have an "A7N8X Deluxe" ? It has a SIL3112 chip on it, while the
> vanilla A7N8X doesn't have the chip soldered on.
>
> There is a jumper ("Bigdawg" mentioned the jumper). The jumper is for
> enable/disable of the SIL3112. We know that works, because you've
> been able to do things to the disk(s).
>
> The controller is not on the Southbridge. That means, during install
> of Windows, you pressed F6 and installed some kind of SiliconImage
> disk driver.
>
> That BIOS is unique, in that the add-in Silicon Image RAID
> module in the BIOS, has no configuration done in the main
> BIOS screen. So there is no option to select there, such as
> RAID or non-RAID.
>
> If you enter the BIOS, and press <control-S>, that is supposed
> to bring up the RAID setup screen. I haven't heard you mention
> the word RAID, so there would normally be no reason to go in
> there. I want you to go in there anyway, to prove that the
> SiliconImage module in the BIOS is being loaded during POST startup.
> If the module loads, then it is more likely to also be offering
> INT 0x13 service, for reading the disks during a boot attempt.
> (In some BIOSes, you have to enable something, to get add-in
> modules to load, but there is no option I can see in the
> Asus manual for that. Which means it is always going to try to
> load, at least until it sees that the minimum number of SATA
> disks is not installed.)
>
> In the RAID setup screen, you should see your two disks, with
> a notation that they aren't RAID or anything. Or maybe they
> are RAID ? What configuration were you using, when this
> stuff worked ?
>
> Now when I check the manual, and check the last page here, I see
> that non-RAID mode is not supported. What driver are you using
> in Windows that allows you to see the disk(s). Were they once
> a RAID1 mirror array, and now you see two disks ?
>
> http://support.asus.com/technicaldocuments/SiI3112A.pdf
>
> "6 Using Hard Drives as Non-RAID
>
> Drives connected to the Silicon Image RAID connectors do not
> support non-RAID function."
>
> Perhaps you could explain a bit more, how you are planning on
> setting these up, with your WinXP install.
>
> Paul
Hi Paul

You're right that I've never been there before. When I ctr-S, it shows a
RAID setup screen, and displays basic data on the 2 SATA disks.

The system has been working non-RAID since I assembled it.

Cheers

Tony MS

Tony MS wrote:

> Hi Paul
>
> You're right that I've never been there before. When I ctr-S, it shows a
> RAID setup screen, and displays basic data on the 2 SATA disks.
>
> The system has been working non-RAID since I assembled it.
>
> Cheers
>
> Tony MS

So then, if you booted from it when it had the two drives on it,
what driver were you using ? Were you booted from some other
drive, and only used the two SATA for data ?

There are SIL3112 drivers listed here for WinXP, but they are
divided according to whether the BIOS module is RAID or BASE.
And the one in the Asus BIOS would be RAID.

http://www.siliconimage.com/support/...ctid=2&osid=4&

Maybe I'm missing something, and the IDE driver will work with a
RAID BIOS. I don't know where you'd find a good reference on the
subject. (If I check the .INF file in the driver download,
I don't find a SUBSYS ID that matches an Asus board, so the
driver probably won't even "take" if you try it. Asus SUBSYS
is 1043, and the other four digits correspond to the motherboard
or PCI card.)

The <control-S> thing probably wouldn't work unless two drives
were connected. If one drive was connected, and already was
marked as a RAID array, that would probably work. But to
get the BIOS module to load, if no array had been declared,
you might need two drives to do that.

If you still have access to the boot disk with the WinXP install
on it, and you could look for driver files, maybe you can figure out
what it is using from that.

Paul

I used a driver supplied on an ASUS CD that came with the MB - Si3112r.sys.

So there must be a SATA driver somewhere in the BIOS, used for BOIS
setup and bootstrapping, and this one, used by XP from load-time onwards.

Tony

Paul wrote:
> Tony MS wrote:
>
>> Hi Paul
>>
>> You're right that I've never been there before. When I ctr-S, it shows
>> a RAID setup screen, and displays basic data on the 2 SATA disks.
>>
>> The system has been working non-RAID since I assembled it.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Tony MS
>
> So then, if you booted from it when it had the two drives on it,
> what driver were you using ? Were you booted from some other
> drive, and only used the two SATA for data ?
>
> There are SIL3112 drivers listed here for WinXP, but they are
> divided according to whether the BIOS module is RAID or BASE.
> And the one in the Asus BIOS would be RAID.
>
> http://www.siliconimage.com/support/...ctid=2&osid=4&
>
>
> Maybe I'm missing something, and the IDE driver will work with a
> RAID BIOS. I don't know where you'd find a good reference on the
> subject. (If I check the .INF file in the driver download,
> I don't find a SUBSYS ID that matches an Asus board, so the
> driver probably won't even "take" if you try it. Asus SUBSYS
> is 1043, and the other four digits correspond to the motherboard
> or PCI card.)
>
> The <control-S> thing probably wouldn't work unless two drives
> were connected. If one drive was connected, and already was
> marked as a RAID array, that would probably work. But to
> get the BIOS module to load, if no array had been declared,
> you might need two drives to do that.
>
> If you still have access to the boot disk with the WinXP install
> on it, and you could look for driver files, maybe you can figure out
> what it is using from that.
>
> Paul