chkdsk /f does not fix NTFS errors

Running Windows XP Pro with all the latest Windows update, SP2, etc...

I try to defrag my hard drive with O&O Defrag V8 and the software say that
the defrag was cancelled on C: due to errors in the volume.

So, I tell Windows to check for errors at the next reboot, fixing what it
finds and scanning for bad sectors. I reboot and the scandisk runs through
as expected. I try to defrag and the same thing occurs.

At this point I boot from my Windows CD and go to the recovery console. I
run chkdsk /p... It runs through without incident. I reboot and I still am
not able to defrag the C: drive due to errors on the volume.

At this point I've even copied one drive to another and swapped them out.
Exact same result on the new hard drive.

Extended tests on these drives with the manufacturers utilities comes up
clean.

So... What else can I do?

Try the FIXMBR utility in Recovery Console.

That fixed it right up. Thanks!

[Sam_Again]

Start XP and F2 to go to the BIOS. Select Boot from CD ROM in the Boot section as the option. Restart (with Windows CD inserted) and F12 - Boot from CD ROM. Windows Recovery Console will eventually appear. Select that option. Select 1. At C:\Windows tap in chkdsk. While not chkdsk /f or others, this sorts out many problems which gets you going. Other options are also available (C:\Windows> help) but use with discretion. Restart - and don't forget to change the BIOS back to Boot from the Hard Drive.

[Fire Ant]

First of all, let me say that I'm glad to find others who have found this problem. Guys, this is a bug in Windows XP. It started sometime in early 2009 - probably after I installed a security patch. I have found this bug on ALL computers running winXP. I have a contact at Paragon Software in Moscow and all of his XP computers do the same thing. I personally have checked 5 machines here in Houston Texas and they all do the same thing. I have clients who work for Microsoft software developers and have tried to get them to bring pressure on Microsoft to the fix the problem - but that has not happened yet. If any of you know how to pressure Microsoft - please do so.

Just so we are on the same page, let me describe the problem and tell you of my explorations. Run chkdsk in windows XP (no switch) and you get a series of error messages: free space marked as used, windows found problems in the file system, run chkdsk /f. These and several others that I don't remember at the moment. I run chkdsk /f. Reboot is required. I watch very carefully at the completion. (I flashes quickly) There are no errors displayed. The computer reboots, I run chkdsk (no switch) and the same errors are displayed.

I have also gone into the Recovery Console and run chkdsk /r. The 3 stages run and the results show that the errors have been fixed. I reboot into winXP, run chkdsk and the same errors are back! Its real fellas, it is not your imagination. It is a real bug in windows XP both Pro and Home. I checked a Vista computer and it did not have the problem. I will say this, the supposed errors do not seem to effect the operation of my system.

So what do we do about it?

Dear db, Please read my post again. As I stated there, I did go into the recovery console. Ran chkdsk /R, which did fix the errors - that is - none were displayed at completion. When I reboot into XP and run chkdsk, the same errors are back.

This occurs on ALL windows XP computers. Several people from around the world have checked this and they ALL do it!! It is a bug in XP as I stated before. The problem started in early 2009 as far as I can tell.

As a note to future comments on my post, I get highly annoyed when someone responds with a comment that is already answered in my original post. If you have a comment or suggestion, please read ALL that I have said to make certain that your comment has not already been addressed.

you may have to run the
check disk from the disk
system prompt.

in order to do the above
you will need to boot with
an xp cd and log into the
recovery console.

Convert to old and trusty FAT32?

access this News Group directly with the following News URL...

news://msnews.microsoft.com/microsof...lp_and_support

I understand that you are
frustrated with the situation.
-------------

unfortunately, I think the problem
is not windows but with the paragon
software,

especially if you are using the
freeware version.

fortunately, windows is highly stable
on its own.

what you might want to try out
is the acronis disk director and
see if the ntfs's are not corrupted.

in other words the ntfs is either
on the verge or has crashed.

ultimately, you may have to consider
reformatting the disks.

-----------

I googled paragon freeware and
found something called paragon
rescue disk.

perhaps, it is worth a try but I
would ensure the user data
is backed up on the test machine.

Just what are these "errors"?

It all works fine for me on lots of XP computers, so not ALL XP
computers have this issue - a better statement would be that your
computers have this issue.

If it is some kind of XP bug that you have seen reported and everyone
has the issue, where have you seen it reported? It would seem if it
was an XP bug, I would have the issue too.

Vague symptoms like "errors", "a bunch of errors" and "reports" are
not very revealing. With clues like that I would have to suggest that
you apply the "fix" and the "solution" and to check "things in various
places" for answers.

What is your operating environment, are there any significant events
in the Event Log or Device Manager?

Click Start, Run and in the box enter:

msinfo32

Click OK, and when the System Summary info appears, click Edit, Select
All, Copy and then paste
the information back here.

There will be some personal information (like System Name and User
Name), and whatever appears to be private information to you, just
delete it from the pasted information.

This will minimize back and forth Q&A and eliminate guesswork.

In the Event Viewer look in the Application Log for event 1001 from
source Winlogon and you will find the report for the chkdsk that ran at
boot time. Copy and paste the event to your next post.

I think he was more frustrated that you apparently didn't read his post
carefully, at least from what he wrote. Maybe it's some missing nirvana.

[Fire Ant]

Microsoft Windows XP [Version 5.1.2600]
(C) Copyright 1985-2001 Microsoft Corp.

C:\Documents and Settings\>chkdsk
The type of the file system is NTFS.
Volume label is 74Gig-Super.

WARNING! F parameter not specified.
Running CHKDSK in read-only mode.

CHKDSK is verifying files (stage 1 of 3)...
File verification completed.
CHKDSK is verifying indexes (stage 2 of 3)...
Index verification completed.
CHKDSK is verifying security descriptors (stage 3 of 3)...
Security descriptor verification completed.
CHKDSK is verifying Usn Journal...
Usn Journal verification completed.
Correcting errors in the Volume Bitmap.
Windows found problems with the file system.
Run CHKDSK with the /F (fix) option to correct these.

72613024 KB total disk space.
33416352 KB in 133186 files.
45972 KB in 10712 indexes.
0 KB in bad sectors.
357456 KB in use by the system.
65536 KB occupied by the log file.
38793244 KB available on disk.

4096 bytes in each allocation unit.
18153256 total allocation units on disk.
9698311 allocation units available on disk.



Hi Guys, The above is the results of a chkdsk on my system. If this does not get you to understand what I'm saying I cannot say any more. You guys ae still not reading what I originally wrote. It has nothing to do with Paragon Software - db. The errors occur on ALL XP computers that I have checked - about 15 in all. Paragon sofware is only on my computer. Incidentally Paragon Disk Backup is THE BEST backup software available. Another thing db, I avoid Acronis software like the plague! It made my system unbootable about 2 years ago. It took an all night session on a Saturday night using the recovery console to get my system back.

Jose, I do not believe your XP computer is free of these errors. There is nothing in msinfo32 that would help you.

John John, I checked event 1001 in Even Viewer. The contents are here:

0000: 00001c4e 00001c4f 00000717

If this means something to you then more power to you.

I have contacts with people at Hitachi. They are a Microsoft deveper. Their XP computers do the same thing.

I have another contact at HP. Their XP computers do the same thing. So Jose, if your XP computer does not have the errors then I would like to know if it has the latests updates. As I stated before, this problem started sometime in early 2009. I built this computer in December 2006 - my Christmas present to myself. This was before SP1. When I do a fresh install on an HDD, chkdsk does NOT have the problem. All of my HDD drives are in mobile docks so I can change them out with the twist of key.

Again, fellas, I have to say some of your comments indicate that you did not read ALL of what I said originally.

Through the contacts mentioned, Hitachi and HP, I have tried to get them to get Microsoft to fix the chkdsk problem, but that has not happened yet. MS seems to be rushing on with the OS du Jour which appears to be about as good as XP. It certainly is better than Vista. But I question if any progress has been made.

One other comment that I have made before: This is mainly for db, the apparent errors do not have any detrimental effect on my system stability or operation in any way. I'm not sure what it will take to get you guys to accept the fact that this is a bug in XP, but maybe this post will do it.

Best regards, Fire Ant

I don't know why your contacts cannot respond to your situation.

It is not a bug in XP. it is the way you are choosing to run chkdsk.

If you run it from a command prompt, it may report errors. Mine does
not but it might some day and here is how Microsoft explains:

....CHKDSK may report that a disk is corrupted even when there is no
real corruption present. This can happen if NTFS happens to modify
areas of the disk on behalf of some program activity that CHKDSK is
examining at the same time. To verify a volume correctly, the volume
must be in a static state, and the only way to guarantee that state is
to lock the volume. CHKDSK only locks the volume when /F or /R (which
implies "F") is specified. Thus, you may need to run CHKDSK more than
once to get it to complete all stages in read-only mode.

If you are running chkdsk from a command prompt, you are not in the
static state required and you may see errors "when no real corruption
is present". This is why it works okay in RC and when you reboot.

BTW - If chkdsk runs at reboot, the activity shows up in the Event Log
(you mention it disappears very quickly), so if you did not know that
already, take a look in the Application log for events sourced by
Winlogon and you should not see the errors - unless you have some
other issue.

There actually is some additional reading about chkdsk if you want to
learn about it and it will explain everything you see and why your
expectations exceed reality.

It is also highly speculative to tell me what my computer is doing or
how it is behaving when you have never seen my computer and know
nothing about it.

I am current on MS updates and this XP I am using at this very moment
for casual leisure activities has been installed and running on the
same HDD since 1/21/2004, 10:32:46 AM (I just checked) with never a
reinstall or repair install so I think I know something about how at
least some of it works by now.

I don't have a need to run chkdsk so maybe it used to work the way you
describe, maybe not - I never noticed and don't care since it is
common knowledge that running chkdsk from a command prompt in XP is
well known to produce unreliable and inconsistent (not the same twice)
results under what would otherwise be considered normal conditions.
But that is not the way to run chkdsk if you want accurate results -
the MS documentation tells you that.

If you would have provided better information about what you were
seeing before ("some errors" is not good enough), it would have gone a
lot smoother! There is no pressure to bring on MS or anyone to fix
something that is not broken and working as designed. The results you
see do not defy explanation. It is an understanding and
interpretation issue.

It is sad your contacts seem to lack understanding of this commonplace
observation, but now you can give them an education. Now is your
chance to embarrass these geeks! You can certainly read more about
how it all works and why.

Here is an efficient method to post Event Viewer messages if you want
to post any more.

To see the Event Viewer logs, click Start, Settings, Control Panel,
Administrative Tools, Event Viewer.

A shortcut to Event Viewer is to click Start, Run and in the box
enter:

%SystemRoot%\system32\eventvwr.msc /s

Click OK to launch the Event Viewer.

The most interesting logs are usually the Application and System.
Some logs may be almost or completely empty.
Not every event is a problem, some are informational messages that
things are working okay and some are warnings.
No event should defy reasonable explanation.

Each event is sorted by Date and Time. Errors will have red Xs,
Warnings will have yellow !s.
Information messages have white is. Not every Error or Warning event
means there is a serious issue.
Some are excusable at startup time when Windows is booting. Try to
find just the events at the date
and time around your problem.

If you double click an event, it will open a Properties windows with
more information. On the right are
black up and down arrow buttons to scroll through the open events. The
third button that looks like
two pages on top of each other is used to copy the event details to
your Windows clipboard.

When you find an interesting event that occurred around the time of
your issue, click the third button
under the up and down arrows to copy the details and then you can
paste the details (right click, Paste
or CTRL-V) the detail text back here for analysis.

To get a fresh start on any Event Viewer log, you can choose to clear
the log (backing up the log is offered),
then reproduce your issue, then look at just the events around the
time of your issue.

[Fire Ant]

Jose, Thank you for explaining the source of the problem! If, according to you, the effect is well known, then I am at a loss as to why none of my sources could explain it. I will tell you that some very high level programmers agreed with me that it was a bug in XP. So on most computers there is some running program that writes to the disk during the running of chkdsk and this causes the error messages. That does explain a lot. I do recall that on several occasions I could run chkdsk and not get any errors, and then I could run it again and get the errors. This effect is now explained - thank you very much. It also explains why you do not get the errors on your own computer - you do not have any running software that writes to the disk during chkdsk.

As I said in an earlier posting, I could do a clean install of XP, pre-SP1, and run chkdsk and not get any errors. This is because I had no other software installed besides the OS at the time.

Thank again, Fire Ant

No problemo.

I didn't get it at first either and learned some stuff too.

MS might just say the product is working as designed. It's not a bug,
it's a feature.

I submitted that bit of wit to a
long,long time ago: