ML370 G4 not seeing all physical RAM

Hi All,

I have a situation where I had a client upgrade from 4GB to 6GB physical RAM
in an older ML370 G4. BIOS sees the full 6GB, but Windows is still only
reporting 4GB. The system has Windows 2003 R2 Enterprise.

The /PAE switch has been enabled in the BOOT.INI file.

Is there something I'm missing?

In 32-bit OS, 4GB is the higher limit. PAE does extended this limit to 64GB,
but this is not the linear space. Applications must know how to use PAE.
IIRC SQL Server 2000 was aware of PAE, I don't know about other apps.


"Brandon Carder" <BrandonCarder@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:88C10FA9-FA1D-45A8-8081-4884E92651B3@microsoft.com...
> Hi All,
>
> I have a situation where I had a client upgrade from 4GB to 6GB physical
> RAM
> in an older ML370 G4. BIOS sees the full 6GB, but Windows is still only
> reporting 4GB. The system has Windows 2003 R2 Enterprise.
>
> The /PAE switch has been enabled in the BOOT.INI file.
>
> Is there something I'm missing?

So the limit may be extended, but the actual visual is still going to show
4GB? Am I understanding this correctly?


"Dusko Savatovic" wrote:

> In 32-bit OS, 4GB is the higher limit. PAE does extended this limit to 64GB,
> but this is not the linear space. Applications must know how to use PAE.
> IIRC SQL Server 2000 was aware of PAE, I don't know about other apps.
>
>
> "Brandon Carder" <BrandonCarder@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:88C10FA9-FA1D-45A8-8081-4884E92651B3@microsoft.com...
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I have a situation where I had a client upgrade from 4GB to 6GB physical
> > RAM
> > in an older ML370 G4. BIOS sees the full 6GB, but Windows is still only
> > reporting 4GB. The system has Windows 2003 R2 Enterprise.
> >
> > The /PAE switch has been enabled in the BOOT.INI file.
> >
> > Is there something I'm missing?
>
>

Hi Brandon,

I don't know how old you are, but we "old bones" have seen this before in
the old DOS days. The original 8086 CPU had 20 address bits. 2^20=1MB. DOS
used 0 - 640kB. The memory between 640k and 1MB was for video, and other hw
devices. When they added memory above 1MB, DOS apps didn't see memory above
1MB. DOS had to switch (map) memory above 1MB space to the memory space
below 1MB.

PAE does (more or less) the same, only in the space above 4GB. 2^32=4GB.
Intel added four more address lines to the CPU (2^4=16; 16*4GB=64GB) and
added instructions to reference this memory. However, the OS coding and app
coding remains the same.

One more thing.
When 32-bit OS was designed, they split the memory 50:50. Half was dedicated
to OS, half was dedicated to app. They later changed it (with /3GB switch in
boot.ini). What this means is that the app can now see max 3GB and OS can
use max 1GB.

RTM Vista (32-bit) could (almost) never see full 4GB. 3.5GB was about
maximum. They changed it in Vista SP1. Vista SP1 now reports full 4GB (but
still cannot use cca 0.5GB).

32-bit Windows Servers 2003 can address 64GB using PAE, but it doesn't mean
that your OS or apps will benefit from it. Like I said, the only app that I
know that benefits from PAE was SQL Server 2000.

If you need more than 3GB of memory, the way to go is 64-bit OS (Win Server
2008). IMO don't waste your time on 64-bit Windows 2003 (if it will be a new
installation).

"Brandon Carder" <BrandonCarder@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:F6FD3B33-A1FB-4B14-883C-F2A1073A8A63@microsoft.com...
> So the limit may be extended, but the actual visual is still going to show
> 4GB? Am I understanding this correctly?
>
>
> "Dusko Savatovic" wrote:
>
>> In 32-bit OS, 4GB is the higher limit. PAE does extended this limit to
>> 64GB,
>> but this is not the linear space. Applications must know how to use PAE.
>> IIRC SQL Server 2000 was aware of PAE, I don't know about other apps.
>>
>>
>> "Brandon Carder" <BrandonCarder@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
>> message
>> news:88C10FA9-FA1D-45A8-8081-4884E92651B3@microsoft.com...
>> > Hi All,
>> >
>> > I have a situation where I had a client upgrade from 4GB to 6GB
>> > physical
>> > RAM
>> > in an older ML370 G4. BIOS sees the full 6GB, but Windows is still only
>> > reporting 4GB. The system has Windows 2003 R2 Enterprise.
>> >
>> > The /PAE switch has been enabled in the BOOT.INI file.
>> >
>> > Is there something I'm missing?
>>
>>

>Hi All,
>
>I have a situation where I had a client upgrade from 4GB to 6GB physical RAM
>in an older ML370 G4. BIOS sees the full 6GB, but Windows is still only
>reporting 4GB. The system has Windows 2003 R2 Enterprise.
>
>The /PAE switch has been enabled in the BOOT.INI file.
>
>Is there something I'm missing?

According to MSDN, you can have 64GB RAM on R2 Enterprise 32-bit and
1TB on 64-bit.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/libr...ws_server_2003

Is the BIOS as up to date as possible (version 2007.07.19)? You can
easily check the version using CPU-Z (on the Mainboard tab).

Seems the 2004.12.12 BIOS fixes an issue with the system not seeing
more than 4GB RAM.

"Updated to resolve issue where systems with exactly 4 Gbytes of
memory will not make all 4 GBytes available to the operating system.
Typically, the system will report 3.5 Gbytes as being available to the
operating system even though 4 Gbytes of DIMMs are installed. Various
devices in the system, including embedded PCI devices, plug-in PCI
devices, and PCI-Express devices, must have their memory mapped below
4 Gbytes. With previous ROM versions, the memory space used by these
devices was lost. With the new version of the System ROM, the memory
which was previously lost will be remapped to above 4 Gbytes. Thus,
all memory will be available to the operating system, but some of that
memory is only addressable above 4 Gbytes. To access memory above 4
Gbytes, the operating system must be configured to enable Physical
Address Extensions (PAE) Mode. Consult your operating system user’s
guide on how to enable PAE mode. For more details, refer to Customer
Advisory EL041214_CW01."

Try updating the BIOS to current if it's not already.

- Thee Chicago Wolf

It could very well be the BIOS. Current version is P50, 12/02/2004. I'm going
to update BIOS and see if that resolves it.

>It could very well be the BIOS. Current version is P50, 12/02/2004. I'm going
>to update BIOS and see if that resolves it.

Ok. Let me know how it goes!

- Thee Chicago Wolf

This didn't work... any other suggestions?




"Thee Chicago Wolf" wrote:

> >It could very well be the BIOS. Current version is P50, 12/02/2004. I'm going
> >to update BIOS and see if that resolves it.
>
> Ok. Let me know how it goes!
>
> - Thee Chicago Wolf
>

>This didn't work... any other suggestions?

Have you tried swapping the memory around to different banks? I know
you mentioned the BIOS does see it fine but since the BIOS update
didn't help any, I am at a loss for why it's not seeing the full 6GB.

- Thee Chicago Wolf

PAE is a feature of the processor that requires support in the motherboard
and operating system (PAE support is included in Windows XP, Server 2003
etc.). NO application changes are required as the PAE feature has no affect
on application coding. PAE allows the operating system to map any part of
the 4 GB (32 bit) virtual address space into physical memory pages above 4
GB.

Each process (e.g. application) on 32 bit OS is limited to a 4 GB address
space - this can not be changed. Whether a system will benefit from more
physical RAM and PAE will depend on the collective actual memory requirement
of the workload - all the applications and system services running
concurrently.

The operating system feature called AWE DOES require application changes.
This feature allows an application to request that the operating system map
different physical memory pages into the virtual address space of the
application - this is similar to how "expanded memory" worked (expanded
memory was only used for a few years when the 80386 based systems were
around - ancient history now!). Applications have to be specifically coded
to use this feature - SQL Server 2000 (and later versions) are designed to
use this feature.

How much physical memory a 32 bit operating system can use on any particular
hardware depends on the hardware details as well as the operating system.
There are many motherboards (especially older ones not designed for 64 bit
operating systems) that limit the RAM usable by a 32 bit OS(even when PAE is
enabled) and in some cases even for 64 bit OS, because some of the hardware
(e.g. video adapters) requires part of the address space. This is explained
in http://support.microsoft.com/kb/929605.

The information in the page at
http://members.shaw.ca/bsanders/Wind...ageFileEtc.htm
may also be useful.

--
Bruce Sanderson
http://members.shaw.ca/bsanders

It is perfectly useless to know the right answer to the wrong question.



"Dusko Savatovic" <nospamplease.savatovic@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:%23nn4MaxTJHA.4372@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> Hi Brandon,
>
> I don't know how old you are, but we "old bones" have seen this before in
> the old DOS days. The original 8086 CPU had 20 address bits. 2^20=1MB. DOS
> used 0 - 640kB. The memory between 640k and 1MB was for video, and other
> hw devices. When they added memory above 1MB, DOS apps didn't see memory
> above 1MB. DOS had to switch (map) memory above 1MB space to the memory
> space below 1MB.
>
> PAE does (more or less) the same, only in the space above 4GB. 2^32=4GB.
> Intel added four more address lines to the CPU (2^4=16; 16*4GB=64GB) and
> added instructions to reference this memory. However, the OS coding and
> app coding remains the same.
>
> One more thing.
> When 32-bit OS was designed, they split the memory 50:50. Half was
> dedicated to OS, half was dedicated to app. They later changed it (with
> /3GB switch in boot.ini). What this means is that the app can now see max
> 3GB and OS can use max 1GB.
>
> RTM Vista (32-bit) could (almost) never see full 4GB. 3.5GB was about
> maximum. They changed it in Vista SP1. Vista SP1 now reports full 4GB (but
> still cannot use cca 0.5GB).
>
> 32-bit Windows Servers 2003 can address 64GB using PAE, but it doesn't
> mean that your OS or apps will benefit from it. Like I said, the only app
> that I know that benefits from PAE was SQL Server 2000.
>
> If you need more than 3GB of memory, the way to go is 64-bit OS (Win
> Server 2008). IMO don't waste your time on 64-bit Windows 2003 (if it will
> be a new installation).
>
> "Brandon Carder" <BrandonCarder@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
> message news:F6FD3B33-A1FB-4B14-883C-F2A1073A8A63@microsoft.com...
>> So the limit may be extended, but the actual visual is still going to
>> show
>> 4GB? Am I understanding this correctly?
>>
>>
>> "Dusko Savatovic" wrote:
>>
>>> In 32-bit OS, 4GB is the higher limit. PAE does extended this limit to
>>> 64GB,
>>> but this is not the linear space. Applications must know how to use PAE.
>>> IIRC SQL Server 2000 was aware of PAE, I don't know about other apps.
>>>
>>>
>>> "Brandon Carder" <BrandonCarder@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in
>>> message
>>> news:88C10FA9-FA1D-45A8-8081-4884E92651B3@microsoft.com...
>>> > Hi All,
>>> >
>>> > I have a situation where I had a client upgrade from 4GB to 6GB
>>> > physical
>>> > RAM
>>> > in an older ML370 G4. BIOS sees the full 6GB, but Windows is still
>>> > only
>>> > reporting 4GB. The system has Windows 2003 R2 Enterprise.
>>> >
>>> > The /PAE switch has been enabled in the BOOT.INI file.
>>> >
>>> > Is there something I'm missing?
>>>
>>>
>