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Thread: "What's the deal with UAC (Windows Needs Your Permission screens)" and "...But I thought I was an administrator"

  1. #1
    Jimmy Brush Guest

    I've noticed that a lot of the questions in these newsgroups are either
    directly or indirectly related to UAC (User Account Control). In this post,
    I will go over what UAC does, how it works, the reasoning behind it, how to
    use your computer with UAC on, why you shouldn't turn UAC off, and answer
    some common questions and respond to common complaints about it.

    * What is UAC and what does it do?

    UAC mode (also known as Admin Approval Mode) is a mode of operation that
    (primarily) affects the way administrator accounts work.

    When UAC is turned on (which it is by default), you must explicitly give
    permission to any program that wants to use "administrator" powers. Any
    program that tries to use admin powers without your permission will be
    denied access.

    * How does UAC work

    When UAC mode is enabled, every program that you run will be given only
    "standard user" access to the system, even when you are logged in as an
    administrator. There are only 2 ways that a program can be "elevated" to get
    full admin access to the system:

    - If it automatically asks you for permission when it starts up, and you
    click Continue
    - If you start the program with permission by right-clicking it, then
    clicking Run As Administrator

    A program either starts with STANDARD rights or, if you give permission,
    ADMINISTRATOR rights, and once the program is running it cannot change from
    one to the other.

    If a program that you have already started with admin powers starts another
    program, that program will automatically be given admin powers without
    needing your permission. For example, if you start Windows Explorer as
    administrator, and then double-click on a text file, notepad will open and
    display the contents of the text file. Since notepad was opened from the
    admin explorer window, notepad WILL ALSO automatically run WITH admin
    powers, and will not ask for permission.

    * What's the point of UAC?

    UAC is designed to put control of your computer back into your hands,
    instead of at the mercy of the programs running on your computer.

    When logged in as an administrator in Windows XP, any program that could
    somehow get itself started could take control of the entire computer without
    you even knowing about it.

    With UAC turned on, you must know about and authorize a program in order for
    it to gain admin access to the system, REGARDLESS of how the program got
    there or how it is started.

    This is important to all levels of users - from home users to enterprise
    administrators. Being alerted when any program tries to use admin powers and
    being able to unilaterally disallow a program from having such power is a
    VERY powerful ability. No longer is the security of the system tantamount to
    "crossing one's fingers and hoping for the best" - YOU now control your

    * How do I effectively use my computer with UAC turned on?

    It's easy. Just keep in mind that programs don't have admin access to your
    computer unless you give them permission. Microsoft programs that come with
    Windows Vista that need admin access will always ask for admin permissions
    when you start them. However, most other programs will not.

    This will change after Windows Vista is released - all Windows Vista-era
    programs that need admin power will always ask you for it. Until then, you
    will need to run programs that need administrative powers that were not
    designed for Windows Vista "as administrator".

    Command-line programs do not automatically ask for permission. Not even the
    built-in ones. You will need to run the command prompt "as administrator" in
    order to run administrative command-line utilities.

    Working with files and folders from Windows Explorer can be a real pain when
    you are not working with your own files. When you are needing to work with
    system files, files that you didn't create, or files from another operating
    system, run Windows Explorer "as administrator". In the same vein, ANY
    program that you run that needs access to system files or files that you
    didn't create will need to be ran "as administrator".

    If you are going to be working with the control panel for a long time,
    running control.exe "as administrator" will make things less painful - you
    will only be asked for permission once, instead of every time you try to
    change a system-wide setting.

    In short:

    - Run command prompt as admin when you need to run admin utilities
    - Run setup programs as admin
    - Run programs not designed for Vista as admin if (and only if) they need
    admin access
    - Run Windows Explorer as admin when you need access to files that aren't
    yours or system files
    - Run programs that need access to files that aren't yours or system files
    as admin
    - Run control.exe as admin when changing many settings in the control panel

    * UAC is annoying, I want to turn it off

    Having to go through an extra step (clicking Continue) when opening
    administrative programs is annoying. And it is also very frustrating to run
    a program that needs admin power but doesn't automatically ask you for it
    (you have to right-click these programs and click Run As Administrator for
    them to run correctly).

    But, keep in mind that these small inconveniences are insignificant when
    weighed against the benefit: NO PROGRAM can get full access to your system
    without you being informed. The first time the permission dialog pops up and
    it is from some program that you know nothing about or that you do not want
    to have access to your system, you will be very glad that the Cancel button
    was available to you.

    * Answers to common questions and responses to common criticism

    Q: I have anti-virus, a firewall, a spyware-detector, or something similar.
    Why do I need UAC?

    A: Detectors can only see known threats. And of all the known threats in
    existence, they only detect the most common of those threats. With UAC
    turned on, *you* control what programs have access to your computer - you
    can stop ALL threats. Detectors are nice, but they're not enough. How many
    people do you know that have detectors of all kinds and yet are still
    infested with programs that they don't want on their computer? Everyone that
    I have ever helped falls into this category.

    Q: Does UAC replace anti-virus, a firewall, a spyware-detector, or similar

    A: No. Microsoft recommends that you use a virus scanner and/or other types
    of security software. These types of programs compliment UAC: They will get
    rid of known threats for you. UAC will allow you to stop unknown threats, as
    well as prevent any program that you do not trust from gaining access to
    your computer.

    Q: I am a system administrator - I have no use for UAC.

    A: Really? You don't NEED to know when a program on your computer runs with
    admin powers? You are a system administrator and you really could care less
    when a program runs that has full control of your system, and possibly your
    entire domain? You're joking, right?

    Q: UAC keeps me from accessing files and folders

    A: No, it doesn't - UAC protects you from programs that would try to delete
    or modify system files and folders without your knowledge. If you want a
    program to have full access to the files on your computer, you will need to
    run it as admin. Or as an alternative, if possible, put the files it needs
    access to in a place that all programs have access to - such as your
    documents folder, or any folder under your user folder.

    Q: UAC stops programs from working correctly

    A: If a program needs admin power and it doesn't ask you for permission when
    it starts, you have to give it admin powers by right-clicking it and
    clicking Run As Administrator. Programs should work like they did in XP when
    you use Run As Administrator. If they don't, then this is a bug.

    Q: UAC keeps me from doing things that I could do in XP

    A: This is not the case. Just remember that programs that do not ask for
    permission when they start do not get admin access to your computer. If you
    are using a tool that needs admin access, right-click it and click Run As
    Administrator. It should work exactly as it did in XP. If it does not, then
    this is a bug.

    Q: UAC is Microsoft's way of controlling my computer and preventing me from
    using it!

    A: This is 100% UNTRUE. UAC puts control of your computer IN YOUR HANDS by
    allowing you to prevent unwanted programs from accessing your computer.
    *Everything* that you can do with UAC turned off, you can do with it turned
    on. If this is not the case, then that is a bug.

    Q: I don't need Windows to hold my freaking hand! I *know* what I've got on
    my computer, and I *know* when programs run! I am logged on as an
    ADMINISTRATOR for a dang reason!

    A: I accept the way that you think, and can see the logic, but I don't agree
    with this idea. UAC is putting POWER in your hands by letting you CONTROL
    what runs on your system. But you want to give up this control and allow all
    programs to run willy-nilly. Look, if you want to do this go right ahead,
    you can turn UAC off and things will return to how they worked in XP. But,
    don't be surprised when either 1) You run something by mistake that messes
    up your computer and/or domain, or 2) A program somehow gets on your
    computer that you know nothing about that takes over your computer and/or
    domain, and UAC would have allowed you to have stopped it.

    - JB
    Vista Support FAQ

  2. #2
    Kerry Brown Guest

    Re: "What's the deal with UAC (Windows Needs Your Permission screens)" and "...But I thought I was an administrator"

    Very well said. Do you mind if I put this on my web site? Or better yet
    could you put it on your site and I'll link to it?

    I find UAC not very intrusive at all if you run as a standard user using
    "Run as administrator" when needed. There should rarely be a need to
    actually logon as an administrator. I can't remember the last time I logged
    on as root on my Linux system. Likewise I rarely logon as an administrator
    in my SBS domain. A properly setup and secured OS should rarely need someone
    logged on with system level access.

  3. #3
    Jimmy Brush Guest

    Re: "What's the deal with UAC (Windows Needs Your Permission screens)" and "...But I thought I was an administrator"

    Unfortunately, this is a problem that has no simple resolution. :(

    There is no way for you to allow certain programs to always run as
    administrator, because Microsoft doesn't want software to be able to mimic
    this behavior and be able to set programs to always run as administrator
    without you knowing about it.

    For right now, this is a situation where you will have to either live with
    this behavior, or turn UAC off, until the software manufacturer updates
    their program to be vista-compatible.

    The correct way of doing this from a programming perspective is to install a
    service that does the administrative tasks and then have the startup program
    talk to the service when it wants to do a restricted task. This is
    essentially how virus scanners and the like work.

  4. #4
    Jimmy Brush Guest

    Re: "What's the deal with UAC (Windows Needs Your Permission screens)" and "...But I thought I was an administrator"

    I will be putting this on my website shortly, I will post the address when I

    Anybody is welcome to copy and publish this post ... the more people that
    know, the better :)

  5. #5
    Jimmy Brush Guest

    Re: "What's the deal with UAC (Windows Needs Your Permission screens)" and "...But I thought I was an administrator"

    Pretty simple:

    If you were doing something that involves changing files and settings on
    your computer or having full access to your computer and you get a prompt,
    click Allow. Examples: Changing system settings in the control panel and
    changing what programs start when your computer starts.

    If you are trying to run a program that isn't working quite right that needs
    access to your computer, but it doesn't ask you for permission, and you
    trust it to have full access to your computer, right-click it and click run
    as administrator.

    If you are NOT doing administrative tasks (for example, you are browsing the
    internet, reading e-mail, or writing a document) and a screen pops up asking
    you for permission, CLICK CANCEL. You KNOW you weren't doing anything
    special - and that you weren't starting a program - so don't give anything
    permission to run.

    You just have to be aware of what's going on - if you know you are working
    with your computer, you should expect the prompts. Most of them should say
    "Microsoft Windows" as the publisher - this means that the application was
    made by microsoft.

    If you see a prompt with an orange or red bar at the top, and Windows tells
    you that the application publisher can't be verified, CLICK CANCEL unless
    you are *absolutely sure* you know what that program is.

  6. #6
    But, Windows is not making any policy decision. UAC has nothing to do with
    deciding what should run on the system.

    All it is doing is enforcing what you are doing. If you are starting a
    program that is requesting admin access, you are expected to click continue
    :). The only time there is a bit of "warning guidance" is when the program
    being launched is unsigned, in which case the OS cannot guarantee that the
    program that you are lauching hasn't been replaced by some malware when it
    gets executed.

    UAC is protecting you when either a program would launch that you did not
    start, and you click cancel, or you notice a different looking prompt for a
    program that you expected to prompt (a normal signed prompt vs. an unsigned
    prompt, for example), and you click cancel.

    This certainly does not stop you from running malware, it just stops stuff
    from running that you did not start. UAC allows other really cool things to
    work, like programs isolated into seperate privilege levels on your desktop,
    and it also works in conjunction with other more traditional security
    products to create multiple levels of security.

    And for what it's worth, I could care less if others do as I do ... I would
    just like people to really understand what UAC is doing before they decide
    to turn it off :).

  7. #7
    mayayana Guest
    Those are decisions made by Windows without
    my approval. I clicked an icon. That tells Windows
    "run this program". I didn't ask it to ask me for
    confirmation ... I don't want to hear about Microsoft's
    "digital signature" scam ... I don't want to be reminded
    that my crash helmet chin strap should be tightened
    before proceeding ... I just want to run the darn
    software! I'll worry about the malware, Thank-You-Very-Much.

    If Microsoft wants to help prevent malware infections,
    they could create one nag that would actually help:

    Put a big red button on
    Internet Explorer. Clicking the button would show a message
    that says, "You are about to enable scripting. Are you sure
    you want to do that? You should only enable scripting
    when absolutely necessary." Then, even if scripting is
    enabled, it will be disabled at the next website.

    And of course, the setting to disable that nag will
    be hidden somewhere like:

    HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Internet Options_

    Then setting the value DisableJSCriptWarningToolbarButton
    to the DWORD avalue of 16439 will return control of
    browser scripting to the user. :)

  8. #8
    Jimmy Brush Guest

    Re: ANS: "What's the deal with UAC (Windows Needs Your Permission scre

    This is a common misconception people have :).

    I think this is the main reason people have a hard time grasping UAC, is
    because they believe this to be true, and at first glance it does seem like
    this would be something obvious the computer should be able to do without
    any problems.

    Unfortunately, it isn't ... Windows does not know that you are the one
    starting a program even if you double-click on it in explorer. That is
    exactly why UAC prompts you, to ascertain this.

    If this could be done without a prompt, it would be very cool indeed, and
    then the only prompt that would be needed would be the case where the
    program is unsigned.

    However, this is a much bigger technical problem than it appears at first

  9. #9
    Bob Guest

    Re: "What's the deal with UAC (Windows Needs Your Permission scree

    Exactly...and we both know it's best to have at least two anti-spyware
    programs in addition to an AV program.

    " Windows Defender can only stop 'known' malware. It checks a database that
    is updated often when a new threat is discovered. Defender is not an
    anti-virus program.
    Neither Defender nor UAC are designed to replace a good anti-virus program."

  10. #10
    Steve Thackery Guest

    Re: ANS: "What's the deal with UAC (Windows Needs Your Permission scre

    Here is what you should do. You should contact the vendor and get an
    updated version of the program, because it is INCORRECTLY WRITTEN.

    It breaks the XP programming guidelines. Yes, I said the *XP* guidelines,
    which were published years ago.

    XP was lax and let such programs run anyway. Vista polices those guidelines
    much more rigidly, for security reasons.

    If you insist on turning off UAC, simply type 'vista turn off uac' into
    Google! I've done it for you -

  11. #11
    Richard Guest
    I need to boot directly from hibernate or sleep into a running program,
    without the USERNAME icon appearing and requiring a keystroke from me. I
    have my computer set to automatically wake up at 9AM and start trading stocks
    on an automated protram basis. Please Help or direct me to remove that Icon
    from appearing.

  12. #12
    Camper Guest

    Re: "What's the deal UAC? This info will help.

    You also need to learn to trim a post before hitting the send button.


    "Richard" <> wrote in message
    >I need to boot directly from hibernate or sleep into a running program,
    > without the USERNAME icon appearing and requiring a keystroke from me. I
    > have my computer set to automatically wake up at 9AM and start trading
    > stocks
    > on an automated protram basis. Please Help or direct me to remove that
    > Icon
    > from appearing.

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