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  #16  
Old 01-08-2004
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Join Date: Feb 2004
Posts: 36
ok...i cannot reveal the name of the company for which i am working for...although u ppl may get an idea when i describe wat project is all abt...

well its a news site....trafiic which this site gets at present is avg 200+ mbps/day......monthly bandwidth usage is avg. 200+GB
on a day like elections...ind pak cricket match...or the latest....Nafisa Joseph sucide case....traffic goes in 500+GB per days....
Now hardware with my company is sufficient...the major problem we face is a robust programming language....

Presently we r using ASP....the only reson for using ASP is ...making a new page or a module is extremly quick....but then....ASP has many issues...no garbage collection....compling of page every time they load....then biggest issue MICROSOFT compatibility ..!!my site provides streaming audio and video...and this feature is a huge huge hit overseas.....the currect application is an active x component...which is only compatible to MS.....

i beleive u ppl may hve got some basic idea for changing platform....
I personally feel .net is good option as it would be easy for our team to learn and code....but then powers of java...r amazing...

So plz guys help me if u can we hve to take decision before 15th AUG
Thnx
Retesh
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  #17  
Old 02-08-2004
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Mumbai - India
Posts: 46
From above information.
I can come to foll. conclusions.
Quote:
my site provides streaming audio and video...
Those things, can be well controlled using .asp if you switch over to .jsp that can create huge Server Side Load for you and also switchin from ur current code to JSP.

I can defintely say asp pages are fast enough to load compared to jsp.
provided same hardware and connections two sites are kept on.

Morever, there are endless 3rd party list of components you can find with asp, for jsp it again goes to making those manually.

Quote:
then biggest issue MICROSOFT compatibility ..
If you are using Active X components as referred by you, obviously you need a MS platform to deploy those, unless you are using making a multi-tier site..

Quote:
i beleive u ppl may hve got some basic idea for changing platform....
I personally feel .net is good option as it would be easy for our team to learn and code....but then powers of java...r amazing...
If you people really love on idea of changing platform -> Give a thought about PHP

It would be interesting to discuss on this topic with another webmaster
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  #18  
Old 02-08-2004
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 12
you do hve valid points which i will consider in making a report...the only point i'd like to point out is:

Those things, can be well controlled using .asp if you switch over to .jsp that can create huge Server Side Load for you and also switchin from ur current code to JSP.

Please explain this a bit more. As our ultimate goal is to revent excessive load.


I should 2nd point from SaN-dep
a technical explanation needed for performance of jsp and asp is very hard
it is your pratical expereince from my knowledge about sites

but if you are on asp already dont shift over to jsp

Pick up July's LFY issue, theres an article on this.

you can read Microsoft journal for new fetures of .net
at http://msdn.microsoft.com/msdnmag/is...0/default.aspx

like
1.Anonymous methods (like Anonymous classes in java)
2.New Kind of iterators
3.And Many more for elegant coding

.net framework is portable and thats all that matters dude for whoever asked that question.

As for which one is better

2 words
.NET Framework

TLR : Please define portability.

do i know u anupamsinha??????????
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  #19  
Old 08-11-2004
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Thanjavur Tamilnadu
Posts: 1
clearly .net is future becouse
1.Support more than 19 languages
2.IDE of .net is Best of all existing IDE.
3.During creating Yr project you can choose diiferent modules in different languages so its easy to distribute the module to different persons irrespective to his knowledge.
4.It has all the things
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  #20  
Old 08-11-2004
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Thanjavur,Tamil Nadu,INDIA
Posts: 1
I think that in .NET lies the future.
Now, as retesh_gondal said, his company deals with streaming
audio and vedio. this requires the pages to load raelly fast.
i can't imagine this if a m working with java.
is java faster than ASP.NET?
next comes the development part.
.NET give u the best of all IDEs and the MSDN documentation.
java is yet to develop a fully supportive doc.
lastly, its not true tht .NET is only "Microsoft Compatible", u can port
it for any platform.
Now, as dawn said, its really easy to break ur project in modules. in this
way, u get to work with the language u r most comfortable with.
i think that .NET is the future.
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  #21  
Old 09-11-2004
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 12
I think that java would be better.

1. First in case you have a bug chances are more that java whose code is freely available would be more prone to scurtiny and bug eradication than .net.

2. .net IDE might be great but java IDEs are also getting better. I have tried a few IDSs myself. Some are really nice. Secondly you have a choice in terms of an IDE.

3. Is .net really portable?

4. I don't know why a Java server side scripted page would load slower than an ASP page.

CRUZ : "java is yet to develop a fully supportive doc."

They have it. Secondly you have been provided the code just in case the documentation is not enough.

CRUZ :"Now, as dawn said, its really easy to break ur project in modules."

Java from the very beginning was an OOPS language. You can very easily break your code into smaller parts.

5. Future : where is Visual Basic these days?
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  #22  
Old 10-11-2004
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1
Java will win but there will be a great fight first

I work in the financial arena so I have more experience in this domain. For financial enterprise development in northern Europe Java/J2EE is way ahead of .NET. In southern Europe they are about equal and in the US .NET is I believe more popular. the reason that I belive Java will win is teh open source brigade plus the support of heavyweights such as IBM and Oracle. .NET is good but EJB3 and J2SE 1.5 are huge leaps forward and with steps like thiis Java will stretch ahead of .NET
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  #23  
Old 14-11-2004
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: india
Posts: 13
.Net is the future.
i fully agree with Dawn and Cruz.
.net gives you more flexibility , develop your UI in VB.net , code your essential routines in VC++ and integrate with ADO and ASP in C#.
java is too restricted , in C# and VC++ (managed) you can still use pointers by marking out the unsafe blocks.
VB .net will remain the simplest way to code UI java comes nowhere close
and VC++ is sipmply much more powerful than java.
more over as .net is being ported to linux , the platform indipendent issue won't matter anymore.
these are some of the valid reason for my thinking but the most important factor is
Microsoft has got more muscle than Sun , if both platforms have equal potential finally microsoft will be able to win on pure burte force (of money).
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  #24  
Old 09-12-2004
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Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 7
as "indian" put it ...
Quote:
.net gives you more flexibility , develop your UI in VB.net , code your essential routines in VC++ and integrate with ADO and ASP in C#. java is too restricted
Sun offers all you've mentioned with one language -java. How the hell can it be termed restricted then.
Microsoft has api tools for various languages and they developed some kinda way to interface all of them. that does not make .net more flexible.

Quote:
in C# and VC++ (managed) you can still use pointers by marking out the unsafe blocks.
so? java never had pointers. where's the comparison here. you're citing salient features of .net ...not advantages over java.


Quote:
VB .net will remain the simplest way to code UI java comes nowhere close and VC++ is sipmply much more powerful than java.
what did u use for to code java UI...notepad? i believe VB.Net still uses the property inspector u find in VB, something MS stole from Borland. Try using Borland's JBuilder while doing java UI and tell me if its any different.

Quote:
more over as .net is being ported to linux , the platform indipendent issue won't matter anymore.
okay let's wait. this is not the first time MS boasted of cross-platform compatibity. & u know it ..java's had a vm on at least 3 OS's since its inception.


Quote:
Microsoft has got more muscle than Sun
finally something to ponder abt. i guess this would qualify as an argument if you have to determine whethr java or .net would rule the future. its just that java has blossomed inspite of all that muscle for the last 10 odd years.
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  #25  
Old 16-12-2004
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Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 12
ok lemme rephrase it .as long as .net framework is there all .net applications are portable. sorry for not saying what I intended to say there and thanx for pointing out anupam(we know each other dont we ? )

I don't remember your display name but sure remember the avtar.

OK, I was not pointing to the fact that framework should be there. It is generally undestood. What I wanted to say is that if portability (as I know it) is what you are comparing .net and java on, then java is portable.

i sure hope u can back up for ur calling .net vaporwae there

Hey please. Not so fast!!! I was talking about .NET portability. Can you tell me where on earth i can view a winform application running on a different platform than windows?

At this moment, where dotnet is still not completely featured in all aspects, java is the better choice, for a normal site unless it has some specific requirements.

i totaly agree with hellfire. just add to the list of java horrors the oracle interface on windows (my last experience was with oracle 8.1.6 and it was very disappointing). However, as a programmer I shuld poit to the fact that every 'virtual machine' has an impact on performance. From this point of view .NET is better than java.

Yeah applets are real slow and thats why you wont see many of them around nowadays. Actually there is much more to java than applets. There servlets, beans etc.
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  #26  
Old 05-01-2005
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: italy
Posts: 2
BI hope .NET is the future because I have spent much time on it. But I'm not sure. Technically speaking .NET is a good product and the differences with JAVA are minimal, but the history is full of good technical but 'failed' products and successful bad products. Let's compare .NET story to VB story. VB at release 3.0 was the 'right language to use' and Microsoft puts every effort to support it. The result was millions of VB programmers and billions of weaky applications. Now after 3 years .NET has not taken any significant ground compared to the story of VB, while Java is near to mainstream as never been another language than VB. I think Microsoft has all the chance to take .NET to every programmer in the world, but will it really? At the present I think that they are missing the line.
P.S. About .NET portability?. Today it's definitively a vaporware!
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  #27  
Old 11-01-2005
hellfire
 
Posts: n/a
Hey hey...I'm no programmer (last program was in BASIC 8 years back in skool ). But as an end-user, I HATE java based programs. They are sloooow and ugly. Every time a java based application runs or a webpage having a java applet is opened everything is soooo sluggish and unresponsive. And thats not just my computer (1.5Ghz 768MB ram) but also two other computers I've used (which have pretty decent hardware). Everything except Java thingies run great on them.

Had an Encyclopedia Brittanica on CD, which used JRE and I hated its sluggish performance so much that I just gave it to someone.

I hope something other than java wins the race.

Last edited by hellfire : 11-01-2005 at 09:42 PM. Reason: duh...typo...
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  #28  
Old 28-01-2005
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Bangalore, India
Posts: 2
As for Java being slow, can't help it. It is only on the GUI based applications it takes a beating, it really shines on the server side.
Both .net & java will have their own share as I believe there is no one right solution to any problem. Depending upon the complexity of the problem at hand, limitations etc., both will continue to be used.
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  #29  
Old 02-02-2005
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2
Getting on .Net is NEVER a wise decision if one already knows Java , otherwise it is a BLUNDER. I say this when I tried coding in .Net for some time and have been coding in Java since school days.

Moreover, I don't consider .Net to be a 100% platform independent framework unless I see an IDE that works under the open source / *nix based Systems [Please do NOT quote Mono for argument sake , as it is still under the experimental phase] as they hold tommrow for sure , so even before claiming for the platform independency for a frame work one should at least think twice whether .Net even covers 50% of the OSs existing on the planet ....for sure NO because *nix based systems are always a majority.

As the future for Java is under concern , .Net can definitely never surpass all the vast stretched arenas that Java as a "platform" successfully addresses over the past so many years [right from the Smart cards as in JavaCards to the conventional pure network based applications]

Many in favour of .Net see Java only as a language that has to slowly perform for desktop applications , what do they have to say when they use Java powered mobiles (all J2ME applications) , so there is no intellectual finger pointing out risks OR for that matter diversity.

The 22 language support provided by .Net is no big deal when you have tons of metadata being stuffed into the MSIL assembly (definitely on the cost of coded space).
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  #30  
Old 03-02-2005
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: India
Posts: 4
What really matters is what people in the industry like. There are equal number of really big companies in India who use Java as well as .NET.
The really cash rich companies who like support for the product w'd go for .NET and those who are in the growth phase they opt for Java.

Also the alliances that Java and .NET platforms form with the IT MNCs makes a big difference, since if one of the bigger companies has supported Java or .NET the smaller ones have to go for it.

Java and .NET apart COBOL is still used in the industry so it's like when and what is the need of the hour
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