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  #1  
Old 19-08-2008
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Join Date: May 2008
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Why is Java so hated by everyone in general

Good, first and foremost I would like to see this was a serious post and nothing chilling. Here we are not going to get with anything serious arguments.

The thing is that I am a programmer with a long but little knowledge and good practice is to use python, was watching C++ and Java in the IAD I, if only we use Java as a language to learn to program, or implementing sorts by hand and lists Linked.

The good thing is that, as in the module I java by a tube, could focus 100% of my efforts in Java to improve my knowledge through Apollo with the endless practice that gives me the form and to advance cool, and total, which learn here will be worth well in C# with little change or what I want.

If I ask this is because I am unemployed and not something likely to read criticism on Java. I at first did not understand, and now that I have touched something more nor understand it. I see Java as another language, has its rarest things from my point of view as not being able to index a String, but this is a small thing.

My friend said that she does not like Java because the IDE makes a lot of things for you and above that java is not exactly very complex, have classes for all functions and for all, and if one day you look touches C++, because you have to give against the wall. This strikes me as a good argument, but this is very fashionable that people criticize Java and maybe has not seen anything of this.

Now I say that what little I know, I think something swing regarding GTK+, but for example i've tried JEE with servlets and JSP very well above and at least the idea and how to structure projects, is very very well.

I do not know how the issue of releasing Core Java, I do not know if it is already 100% open source or not yet. The JVM is faster than it was in yesteryear, now is much faster than the python but consumes more.

Then I would like to ask why so widespread that hatred toward Java, because some day I would like to distribute my creations and I do not like to see so many faces reluctant, or at least be able to discuss opinions.

Thank you for not doing advanced flame or troll.

A greeting.
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  #2  
Old 19-08-2008
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Well, I will give you my views on Java. To get in position, I started with Java 1.1, and I devoted myself professionally to it until 1.4. Today I have done some projects, but are counted on the fingers of one hand.

I like the Java language itself, is a modern language, and well structured, like other recent languages, but Java was the first of this line (which also includes C#).

The implementation of Java has never been too good, memory leaks of garbage collector, who started being very abundant, and although they have declined, they remain there, and above all a yield very low considering that is bytecode.

The Java strategy seems to have been adapting ido, thanks to not give the size in other environments. For example, the main use Java applets was the creation of that due to security constraints, poor performance, and the enormous weight of the JRE, which did leave aside, usually in favour of Flash, a language far more productive and a performance not much worse.

Then began to be used in desktop applications, the famous slogan of write once, run anywhere, not just met, because the portability of Java, as expected, depends on the implementation of the JRE. As experience, we made a desktop application client-server, mid-size, with Java 1.3 times, it worked perfectly in NT environments, but not 9x ... Never arrive to try it on other platforms, but I can imagine the result. And being able to easily decompile applications, did it not being the ideal technology to distribute certain types of applications.

The next step was for internet applications, write to Windows, run on powerful servers and Solaris, gave many advantages, however, develop with servlets, was almost as tedious as do CGI in C++, so it quickly emerged JSP.

JSP brought a philosophy of objects based on Java, which at that time exceeded ASP, and began to be adopted. Internally the mechanism turned the pages servlets that the application server compile and run when needed. Again, an approach not too good. But PHP came into the game, with OOP features that were beginning to be serious, much more simple, portable, and despite being interpreted, not much slower than Java.

Microsoft saw the seam, and with its platform .NET, did something similar, but much better implemented, although not as portable. Things had changed somewhat, before a web server powerful, was a machine with Sun SPARC processors, where Java was the best choice, with increased performance x86, Linux or Windows now, were able to meet those needs.

Another important turning point, is that in mind (if not already underway), a project to make Java opensource, if so, could give back some advantage.

Java is currently used mostly for mobile applications, avoiding the complexity of dealing with details owners, and is available in most mobile, but eye that Microsoft is there with its Windows Mobile and .NET compact ... We must see that happening.

In my opinion Java is today a good choice for Web projects large in size, which can be deployed with more or less effort on a platform of production different from development.

Of course those who based their technological structure in Java, continue to develop on it, though already beginning to be moving to the first .NET.

The SDI, are light years away from modern IDE as those of RAD Studio Borland or Microsoft Visual Studio.
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  #3  
Old 19-08-2008
Dr. V
 
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To begin with we must distinguish between Java as a language, j2ee and other technologies, the JRE bytescodes and finally the SDIs.

Java as a language is very robust, very solid. I have programmed into many languages and took almost 20 years programming in one and in another, from Basic, Pascal, C, C++, assembler, ADA, scripting through as many in multiple paradigms and java seems to me the best.

To begin the comparison between C++ and Java. Yes, they have similar syntax, but they're in different worlds. If your friend criticizes that java is simple and C++ is more complex. I can tell you that assembly is more complex C++ programming or something lisp is much more difficult. I do not see the criticism beyond that when you touch peguarte with C++ and it's your turn point as the whole world. What does this have negative implication in java? I do not see it. If you know of programming and software knows this already. The question of language or another is no more than a matter of learning as a whole.

What the IDES. This is not a matter of java. Java is just a language. If the IDE helps you is a thing of SDI. What your friend wants is not using IDEs, as forward. You open a notepad, encode and then compile the class. What your friend wants is to know what is behind the SDI! But this is no problem of java.

So I do not understand that "Java is not exactly very complex". With regard to the functions and such. The JDK and the JRE (Java) has many apis of programming. Is this bad? On the other aldo, in C++ there muuuuuchas libraries and APIs. What that the MFC-microsoft? What about .NET? It is the same thing. And by the way, these IDEs also hide many things.

Swing, JSPs, servlets, etc. ... are not more than specifications and technologies that revolve around Java.

Java is used much more to that site. I have used a lot and not just java applets or for desktop applications. I was a computer analyst product of a very complex middleware platform that was installed in telecommunications operators. Was chosen by Java because of its portability. This platform can also install machines in Custer in Linux, Windows, Solaris or HP. The performance was quite good and can handle many hundreds of requests per second complex and costly. One of my tasks was to work on analysis and optimization of performance. The memory leaks were always failures programming although it is true that this is a point caused by some rough implementations of the garbage collectors of the virtual machine and its search and that solution was not always trivial. It is not a problem of language itself and modern JREs is given much more memory.

Knowing Java and j2ee are not the same. J2ee are a set of specifications and technologies that facilitate application development and directs the architecture of the systems. In my JSPs the horrific and I think I look like a antipatron in themselves. They have many problems, but JSPs are not JSPs and Java. The servlets are much more than my liking. What we can not do is hardcoded code in the servlet and then say that servlets are a horror (is an example). A JSP is designed to build a certain page response. A servlet goes far beyond this simple vision.

Apart from that there are about a world of java technologies huge, bestial and also from frameworks where j2ee is only one of them. It is impossible to know all of these technologies at once in detail and if you go to the specifications of sun you can see hundreds of them, from JNDI, rmi, EJBs, jdbc, attendance, etc., etc., etc.. The java world is gigantic and complex and involves many aspects. Anyone who tells you that "Java is simple" knows nothing of java or what is moving around them.

Sometimes this feeling that you are a minutiae in a world so large and complejote gives a sense of vertigo and aversion. Is it possible that many hate java for this reason? It's possible. I often frustrates me the speed at which it progresses obliges me to study continuously for not much left behind. And I can only follow certain routes not all. You can reach tens of tios saying all know that java and j2ee (I have done job interviews candidates and I could see that this fashionable put "Java and j2ee") and then see that every one knows one thing differently.

I criticize, therefore, how they grow these technologies. The EJBs 2.x I seem horrific, horrific and JSPs I think in general I think are going to be done to build frameworks that increasingly conceal things and handle more things. I do not like to watch technologies that handled with ease before such as implementing a remote communication service based on rmi now hiding in frameworks instead forcing you to know ITS framework. But there are frameworks muchos.Si a framework to another, below all use the same thing but instead will require all know but as this is not feasible you "forced" to choose another form of work or another. At the time you have a problem, you go to learn that layer of the onion is that this failing. They're appropriating private companies and what you are closing down and hiding to do their business and the worst thing is that everybody seems to swallow. Almost every company has its own framework. It is disturbing.

Those of Microsoft are not stupid and therefore removed .Net. Also I have worked with .Net, not so much as Java. Is Java slow but .Net not? Does Java brings many functions but already made .Net does not? Is Java not portable .Net if it is?

The SDI of the left post in the air but certainly there are very advanced IDEs also available for Java.

Regards.
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  #4  
Old 19-08-2008
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Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 4,080
Good answer.

I think there's a lot of "Java is the new COBOL." Somehow Java is identified with developments in corporate projects that are long and boring. It seems to me that there are no silver bullets for nothing, and Java is a bullet. Will their strengths and weaknesses, and the question is grasp them anyway.

My impression is that Java is behind a company like Sun quite committed to free software and a vibrant community of developers. It does not seem a community inhospitable to anything.
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  #5  
Old 19-08-2008
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,518
It is true that there is no silver bullet, you're not going to make a linux java script and you're not going to make an ERP in ruby and / or python.

I also liked your answers.

It is true that the problem is the big Java infinitez of frameworks that you have to learn to do something and that many people can not do for lack of time.
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  #6  
Old 19-08-2008
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Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by worldpeace View Post
The good thing is that, as in the module I java by a tube, could focus 100% of my efforts in Java to improve my knowledge through Apollo with the endless practice that gives me the form and to advance cool, and total, which learn here will be worth well in C# with little change or what I want.
Correction

Regarding Java, in particular to me is my pleasure to schedule, but we all know that programming is evolving like all technologies, and what I consider as outdated.
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