running sbs2003 R2 in virtual server and guest

Hi,

I installed a small business server 2003 r2 at a customer last week. The
guest and the virtual machine are both installed from the same cd's and key.
The guest was installed without the sbs setup (no dc) and the virtual
machine was installed with full sbs components (dc).

Today the guest started shutting down. After some research I found out that
this was due to SBCore Service, which says that sbs should only be used as a
dc (in the Event Viewer). I didn't know this before, ms eula can sometimes
be
confusing. Both the installations are on the same machine. I suppose it's
allowed to do such an installation (if this was not a sbs).

I am a bit stuck here and don't really know what my options are. I could
promote the guest to a dc, which would mean that i have a lot of components
which i won't need (with a possible harware upgrade). Or I could buy and
install a different os on the guest
machine, which I obviously don't prefer.

Could anyone help me with this?

Thanks a lot.

Gazi

You can't run two instances of SBS in the SAME domain/forest
You can't use the SBS software to only install Windows Server as you found
out.
SBS 2003 is not supported as either the host (parent) or guest (child). Not
saying it won't run, just not a supported configuration.

If you need a second Windows Server, you will have to buy a Windows Server
standard license and the media.

--
Cris Hanna [SBS - MVP]
Contributing Author, Windows Small Business Server 2008 Unleashed
http://www.amazon.com/Windows-Small-...7269967&sr=8-1
------------------------------------
MVPs do not work for Microsoft
Please do not submit questions directly to me.

"Gazi" <gazi.yucel@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:OZrm5mQbJHA.5976@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> Hi,
>
> I installed a small business server 2003 r2 at a customer last week. The
> guest and the virtual machine are both installed from the same cd's and
> key.
> The guest was installed without the sbs setup (no dc) and the virtual
> machine was installed with full sbs components (dc).
>
> Today the guest started shutting down. After some research I found out
> that
> this was due to SBCore Service, which says that sbs should only be used as
> a
> dc (in the Event Viewer). I didn't know this before, ms eula can sometimes
> be
> confusing. Both the installations are on the same machine. I suppose it's
> allowed to do such an installation (if this was not a sbs).
>
> I am a bit stuck here and don't really know what my options are. I could
> promote the guest to a dc, which would mean that i have a lot of
> components
> which i won't need (with a possible harware upgrade). Or I could buy and
> install a different os on the guest
> machine, which I obviously don't prefer.
>
> Could anyone help me with this?
>
> Thanks a lot.
>
> Gazi
>

Gazi wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I installed a small business server 2003 r2 at a customer last week.
> The guest

Do you mean *host* ? I read this to mean you're running SBS as a VM on a
server running W2003 as host, also installed using SBS media.

> and the virtual machine are both installed from the same
> cd's and key. The guest was installed without the sbs setup (no dc)
> and the virtual machine was installed with full sbs components (dc).
>
> Today the guest started shutting down. After some research I found
> out that this was due to SBCore Service, which says that sbs should
> only be used as a dc (in the Event Viewer). I didn't know this
> before, ms eula can sometimes be
> confusing. Both the installations are on the same machine. I suppose
> it's allowed to do such an installation (if this was not a sbs).

Not if you have only one license, actually.
>
> I am a bit stuck here and don't really know what my options are. I
> could promote the guest to a dc,

It isn't just a matter of that - you would need to continue running
sbssetup.exe

> which would mean that i have a lot
> of components which i won't need (with a possible harware upgrade).
> Or I could buy and install a different os on the guest
> machine, which I obviously don't prefer.
>
> Could anyone help me with this?
>
> Thanks a lot.
>
> Gazi

You can't use SBS as a regular Windows server, as you know. If you've got
SBS installed as a VM, you can simply copy / back up the file with the VM
shut down, reinstall the host OS using more appropriate media, and then
re-create the VM using the backed up file

If you mean you're running SBS as the host OS and are running a VM guest
(and the latter is the one with the problem) you'll need to buy / get a
licensed version of W2003 to use for that instead, starting over from
scratch.

Chris is correct, you can't have two SBS machines on the same network, and
you can't install SBS as just a standard Server.

What you _could_ do is install SBS as the host machine, and run Virtual
Server to virtualize any guests you need. But it's not an optimal solution,
since SBS is hard limited to 4GB, and is itself a memory intensive
application, not leaving a whole lot of room for virtual machines. But I've
done it a couple of places, running a couple of XP VMs for Remote Web
Workplace to connect to. Performance isn't great, but adequate.

Note that with SBS 2008 Premium, this issue goes away. Not only does SBS
2008 support 32 GB of RAM, but Premium comes with a second Server license
that can be used to virtualize the main SBS server and also used for a
virtual second Server.

--
Charlie.
http://msmvps.com/blogs/xperts64
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel

"Gazi" <gazi.yucel@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:OZrm5mQbJHA.5976@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> Hi,
>
> I installed a small business server 2003 r2 at a customer last week. The
> guest and the virtual machine are both installed from the same cd's and
> key.
> The guest was installed without the sbs setup (no dc) and the virtual
> machine was installed with full sbs components (dc).
>
> Today the guest started shutting down. After some research I found out
> that
> this was due to SBCore Service, which says that sbs should only be used as
> a
> dc (in the Event Viewer). I didn't know this before, ms eula can sometimes
> be
> confusing. Both the installations are on the same machine. I suppose it's
> allowed to do such an installation (if this was not a sbs).
>
> I am a bit stuck here and don't really know what my options are. I could
> promote the guest to a dc, which would mean that i have a lot of
> components
> which i won't need (with a possible harware upgrade). Or I could buy and
> install a different os on the guest
> machine, which I obviously don't prefer.
>
> Could anyone help me with this?
>
> Thanks a lot.
>
> Gazi
>

Chris and Lanwench,

Thank you both for your quick response. I always thougth that the windows
servers were per cpu licensed, I guess this was wrong. Need to do some eula
freshing up there I guess.

Sorry for the confusing host/guest thing, this should be host/parent=W2k3
(sbs media,no dc) and guest/child=sbs2k3 (sbs media,dc).

Gazi

"Gazi" <gazi.yucel@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:OZrm5mQbJHA.5976@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> Hi,
>
> I installed a small business server 2003 r2 at a customer last week. The
> guest and the virtual machine are both installed from the same cd's and
> key.
> The guest was installed without the sbs setup (no dc) and the virtual
> machine was installed with full sbs components (dc).
>
> Today the guest started shutting down. After some research I found out
> that
> this was due to SBCore Service, which says that sbs should only be used as
> a
> dc (in the Event Viewer). I didn't know this before, ms eula can sometimes
> be
> confusing. Both the installations are on the same machine. I suppose it's
> allowed to do such an installation (if this was not a sbs).
>
> I am a bit stuck here and don't really know what my options are. I could
> promote the guest to a dc, which would mean that i have a lot of
> components
> which i won't need (with a possible harware upgrade). Or I could buy and
> install a different os on the guest
> machine, which I obviously don't prefer.
>
> Could anyone help me with this?
>
> Thanks a lot.
>
> Gazi
>

Gazi wrote:
> Chris and Lanwench,
>
> Thank you both for your quick response. I always thougth that the
> windows servers were per cpu licensed, I guess this was wrong. Need
> to do some eula freshing up there I guess.
>
> Sorry for the confusing host/guest thing, this should be
> host/parent=W2k3 (sbs media,no dc) and guest/child=sbs2k3 (sbs
> media,dc).
> Gazi

Another option perhaps available to you is to download and install Hyper-V
server to provide virtualization services to the SBS2003 VM. It'll also save
you cost of a license for the 'host'.

Hyper-V server requires 64 bit hardware and a few other hardware specifics
but provides better performance for your VMs than Virtual Server will.

http://www.microsoft.com/servers/hyp...r/default.mspx







> "Gazi" <gazi.yucel@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:OZrm5mQbJHA.5976@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> Hi,
>>
>> I installed a small business server 2003 r2 at a customer last week.
>> The guest and the virtual machine are both installed from the same
>> cd's and key.
>> The guest was installed without the sbs setup (no dc) and the virtual
>> machine was installed with full sbs components (dc).
>>
>> Today the guest started shutting down. After some research I found
>> out that
>> this was due to SBCore Service, which says that sbs should only be
>> used as a
>> dc (in the Event Viewer). I didn't know this before, ms eula can
>> sometimes be
>> confusing. Both the installations are on the same machine. I suppose
>> it's allowed to do such an installation (if this was not a sbs).
>>
>> I am a bit stuck here and don't really know what my options are. I
>> could promote the guest to a dc, which would mean that i have a lot
>> of components
>> which i won't need (with a possible harware upgrade). Or I could buy
>> and install a different os on the guest
>> machine, which I obviously don't prefer.
>>
>> Could anyone help me with this?
>>
>> Thanks a lot.
>>
>> Gazi

--
/kj

SBS has particular licensing.

SBS _must_ be 'DC at the root of the forest' (hold all FSMO roles).

If your hardware is x64 (both EM64T and VT) capable I'd install Microsoft
Hyper-V Server (free download) and import the existing SBS VM into it.

"Gazi" <gazi.yucel@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:O3qt97QbJHA.484@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
> Chris and Lanwench,
>
> Thank you both for your quick response. I always thougth that the windows
> servers were per cpu licensed, I guess this was wrong. Need to do some
> eula freshing up there I guess.
>
> Sorry for the confusing host/guest thing, this should be host/parent=W2k3
> (sbs media,no dc) and guest/child=sbs2k3 (sbs media,dc).
>
> Gazi
>
> "Gazi" <gazi.yucel@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:OZrm5mQbJHA.5976@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> Hi,
>>
>> I installed a small business server 2003 r2 at a customer last week. The
>> guest and the virtual machine are both installed from the same cd's and
>> key.
>> The guest was installed without the sbs setup (no dc) and the virtual
>> machine was installed with full sbs components (dc).
>>
>> Today the guest started shutting down. After some research I found out
>> that
>> this was due to SBCore Service, which says that sbs should only be used
>> as a
>> dc (in the Event Viewer). I didn't know this before, ms eula can
>> sometimes be
>> confusing. Both the installations are on the same machine. I suppose it's
>> allowed to do such an installation (if this was not a sbs).
>>
>> I am a bit stuck here and don't really know what my options are. I could
>> promote the guest to a dc, which would mean that i have a lot of
>> components
>> which i won't need (with a possible harware upgrade). Or I could buy and
>> install a different os on the guest
>> machine, which I obviously don't prefer.
>>
>> Could anyone help me with this?
>>
>> Thanks a lot.
>>
>> Gazi
>>
>

Thanks for the responses.

You guys are really great. I was just checking Hyper-V server at microsoft
and already started the download. I also saw that Small Business Server 2003
R2 was not in the list of supported guest(child) os. So sbs2003r2 can be
installed on a Hyper-V server?

Many thanks again.

Gazi

"Gazi" <gazi.yucel@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:OZrm5mQbJHA.5976@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> Hi,
>
> I installed a small business server 2003 r2 at a customer last week. The
> guest and the virtual machine are both installed from the same cd's and
> key.
> The guest was installed without the sbs setup (no dc) and the virtual
> machine was installed with full sbs components (dc).
>
> Today the guest started shutting down. After some research I found out
> that
> this was due to SBCore Service, which says that sbs should only be used as
> a
> dc (in the Event Viewer). I didn't know this before, ms eula can sometimes
> be
> confusing. Both the installations are on the same machine. I suppose it's
> allowed to do such an installation (if this was not a sbs).
>
> I am a bit stuck here and don't really know what my options are. I could
> promote the guest to a dc, which would mean that i have a lot of
> components
> which i won't need (with a possible harware upgrade). Or I could buy and
> install a different os on the guest
> machine, which I obviously don't prefer.
>
> Could anyone help me with this?
>
> Thanks a lot.
>
> Gazi
>

not 'officially supported', but yeah, works.

SBS08 is 'fully supported' as a child on Hyper-V.

"Gazi" <gazi.yucel@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:u72c45RbJHA.4500@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> Thanks for the responses.
>
> You guys are really great. I was just checking Hyper-V server at microsoft
> and already started the download. I also saw that Small Business Server
> 2003 R2 was not in the list of supported guest(child) os. So sbs2003r2 can
> be installed on a Hyper-V server?
>
> Many thanks again.
>
> Gazi
>
> "Gazi" <gazi.yucel@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:OZrm5mQbJHA.5976@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> Hi,
>>
>> I installed a small business server 2003 r2 at a customer last week. The
>> guest and the virtual machine are both installed from the same cd's and
>> key.
>> The guest was installed without the sbs setup (no dc) and the virtual
>> machine was installed with full sbs components (dc).
>>
>> Today the guest started shutting down. After some research I found out
>> that
>> this was due to SBCore Service, which says that sbs should only be used
>> as a
>> dc (in the Event Viewer). I didn't know this before, ms eula can
>> sometimes be
>> confusing. Both the installations are on the same machine. I suppose it's
>> allowed to do such an installation (if this was not a sbs).
>>
>> I am a bit stuck here and don't really know what my options are. I could
>> promote the guest to a dc, which would mean that i have a lot of
>> components
>> which i won't need (with a possible harware upgrade). Or I could buy and
>> install a different os on the guest
>> machine, which I obviously don't prefer.
>>
>> Could anyone help me with this?
>>
>> Thanks a lot.
>>
>> Gazi
>>
>

Gazi wrote:
> Thanks for the responses.
>
> You guys are really great. I was just checking Hyper-V server at
> microsoft and already started the download. I also saw that Small
> Business Server 2003 R2 was not in the list of supported guest(child)
> os. So sbs2003r2 can be installed on a Hyper-V server?
>
> Many thanks again.
>
> Gazi

The SBS FaxService is one issue and direct USB support is not provided by
Hyper-V server. There are third party solutions that address those
limitation if that is a concern.


>
> "Gazi" <gazi.yucel@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:OZrm5mQbJHA.5976@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> Hi,
>>
>> I installed a small business server 2003 r2 at a customer last week.
>> The guest and the virtual machine are both installed from the same
>> cd's and key.
>> The guest was installed without the sbs setup (no dc) and the virtual
>> machine was installed with full sbs components (dc).
>>
>> Today the guest started shutting down. After some research I found
>> out that
>> this was due to SBCore Service, which says that sbs should only be
>> used as a
>> dc (in the Event Viewer). I didn't know this before, ms eula can
>> sometimes be
>> confusing. Both the installations are on the same machine. I suppose
>> it's allowed to do such an installation (if this was not a sbs).
>>
>> I am a bit stuck here and don't really know what my options are. I
>> could promote the guest to a dc, which would mean that i have a lot
>> of components
>> which i won't need (with a possible harware upgrade). Or I could buy
>> and install a different os on the guest
>> machine, which I obviously don't prefer.
>>
>> Could anyone help me with this?
>>
>> Thanks a lot.
>>
>> Gazi

--
/kj

Hi Lanwench [MVP - Exchange],

>> Both the installations are on the same machine. I suppose
>> it's allowed to do such an installation (if this was not a sbs).
> Not if you have only one license, actually.

He is talkign about the 1+1 virtualization rights that applies to Widnwos
Standard Edition Licenses and grand you the right to virtualized the same
license you are using for licensing the host, if that host is ONLY driving
a virtulization solution like Hyper-V, VirtualServer, etc.

These rights do not apply to SBS as SBS always needs to have at a minimum
the DC role enabled and therefore IS driving another role besides Virtualization!

--
Oliver Sommer | MVP Essential Business Server
Small Business Specialist Partner Area Lead | SBSC PAL
Community sites | http://EBSfaq.com | http://SBSfaq.de

Yes, it can be installed. It's not officially supported, but it works fine,
with three exceptions: There is no FAX support,no USB device support, and no
generic SCSI support to connect to tape drives. There are workarounds - for
FAX and USB, there are third party applications that provide USB (or COMM)
over Network. I use and like FabulaTech's solution (see my blog posts on
them). For tape, you can use iSCSI, but it's hardly painless to set up. Or
do what some of us do and use backup to hard disk.

--
Charlie.
http://msmvps.com/blogs/xperts64
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel

"Gazi" <gazi.yucel@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:u72c45RbJHA.4500@TK2MSFTNGP06.phx.gbl...
> Thanks for the responses.
>
> You guys are really great. I was just checking Hyper-V server at microsoft
> and already started the download. I also saw that Small Business Server
> 2003 R2 was not in the list of supported guest(child) os. So sbs2003r2 can
> be installed on a Hyper-V server?
>
> Many thanks again.
>
> Gazi
>
> "Gazi" <gazi.yucel@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:OZrm5mQbJHA.5976@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> Hi,
>>
>> I installed a small business server 2003 r2 at a customer last week. The
>> guest and the virtual machine are both installed from the same cd's and
>> key.
>> The guest was installed without the sbs setup (no dc) and the virtual
>> machine was installed with full sbs components (dc).
>>
>> Today the guest started shutting down. After some research I found out
>> that
>> this was due to SBCore Service, which says that sbs should only be used
>> as a
>> dc (in the Event Viewer). I didn't know this before, ms eula can
>> sometimes be
>> confusing. Both the installations are on the same machine. I suppose it's
>> allowed to do such an installation (if this was not a sbs).
>>
>> I am a bit stuck here and don't really know what my options are. I could
>> promote the guest to a dc, which would mean that i have a lot of
>> components
>> which i won't need (with a possible harware upgrade). Or I could buy and
>> install a different os on the guest
>> machine, which I obviously don't prefer.
>>
>> Could anyone help me with this?
>>
>> Thanks a lot.
>>
>> Gazi
>>
>

Hi Charlie Russel - MVP,

> Yes, it can be installed. It's not officially supported, but it works
> fine, with three exceptions: There is no FAX support

Imo that fax thingy is not a "not supported" one, it's more a not available
one, right!?
If one has a network TAPI aware solution it should be ok, right?!
Does anyone now such a "network TAPI" solution?

--
Oliver Sommer | MVP Essential Business Server
Small Business Specialist Partner Area Lead | SBSC PAL
Community sites | http://EBSfaq.com | http://SBSfaq.de

Yup, both FabulaTech and Eltima have virtual modem over network solutions.
I've used both, and they work acceptably.

http://www.fabulatech.com/virtual-modem.html
http://www.eltima.com/products/virtual-modem-pro/

both also have straight Serial over Network solutions so you can hook up
your existing modems directly.

Right now, FabulaTech is my newest favourite problem solver if you want to
virtualize!

--
Charlie.
http://msmvps.com/blogs/xperts64
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com/profile/charlie.russel

"Oliver Sommer [MVP]" <o.sommer@trinitycomputer.de.removethis> wrote in
message news:fd4107561e6c58cb3bff93cda782@msnews.microsoft.com...
> Hi Charlie Russel - MVP,
>
>> Yes, it can be installed. It's not officially supported, but it works
>> fine, with three exceptions: There is no FAX support
>
> Imo that fax thingy is not a "not supported" one, it's more a not
> available one, right!?
> If one has a network TAPI aware solution it should be ok, right?!
> Does anyone now such a "network TAPI" solution?
>
> --
> Oliver Sommer | MVP Essential Business Server
> Small Business Specialist Partner Area Lead | SBSC PAL
> Community sites | http://EBSfaq.com | http://SBSfaq.de
>
>

Oliver Sommer [MVP] wrote:
> Hi Lanwench [MVP - Exchange],
>
>>> Both the installations are on the same machine. I suppose
>>> it's allowed to do such an installation (if this was not a sbs).
>> Not if you have only one license, actually.
>
> He is talkign about the 1+1 virtualization rights that applies to
> Widnwos Standard Edition Licenses and grand you the right to
> virtualized the same license you are using for licensing the host, if
> that host is ONLY driving a virtulization solution like Hyper-V,
> VirtualServer, etc.
>
> These rights do not apply to SBS as SBS always needs to have at a
> minimum the DC role enabled and therefore IS driving another role besides
> Virtualization!

....also, this is SBS2003, so that won't be relevant here. But thanks for the
clarification :)