Domain NetBIOS name

I'm using the AD Installation Wizard in Win2K3. The part of the DNS name
before ".com" is longer than 14 characters. Is there any way to override
what appears to be a 14-character limit to the NetBIOS name or must I choose
a name that is different from the level two part of the DNS name?

Thanks much for any help or advice.

David

David wrote:

> I'm using the AD Installation Wizard in Win2K3. The part of the DNS name
> before ".com" is longer than 14 characters. Is there any way to override
> what appears to be a 14-character limit to the NetBIOS name or must I
> choose
> a name that is different from the level two part of the DNS name?

Apparently no. Per this kb article, the limit is 15 characters. It is a
limitation of NetBIOS, so I'm sure it has not changed.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/226144

Also, this document lists the conditions that must be met for the NetBIOS
name to match the DSN prefix of the domain:

http://technet2.microsoft.com/Window...ff2a11033.mspx

--
Richard Mueller
Microsoft MVP Scripting and ADSI
Hilltop Lab - http://www.rlmueller.net
--

All you have is 15 bytes and the 1 byte for the netbios suffix. Hopefully
it won't change and Microsoft will allow it to go away peacefully.

http://windowsitpro.com/article/arti...in-length.html

--
Paul Bergson
MVP - Directory Services
MCT, MCSE, MCSA, Security+, BS CSci
2008, 2003, 2000 (Early Achiever), NT4

http://www.pbbergs.com

Please no e-mails, any questions should be posted in the NewsGroup
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

"DJPogoff" <djpogoff_at_complexNOSPAMnet_dot_com> wrote in message
news:72321713-03A2-49AD-AAF9-330CD26A504A@microsoft.com...
> I'm using the AD Installation Wizard in Win2K3. The part of the DNS name
> before ".com" is longer than 14 characters. Is there any way to override
> what appears to be a 14-character limit to the NetBIOS name or must I
> choose
> a name that is different from the level two part of the DNS name?
>
> Thanks much for any help or advice.
>
> David

"DJPogoff" <djpogoff_at_complexNOSPAMnet_dot_com> wrote in message
news:72321713-03A2-49AD-AAF9-330CD26A504A@microsoft.com...
> I'm using the AD Installation Wizard in Win2K3. The part of the DNS name
> before ".com" is longer than 14 characters. Is there any way to override
> what appears to be a 14-character limit to the NetBIOS name or must I
> choose
> a name that is different from the level two part of the DNS name?

No, because that limit (15 character's actually) is hard coded into all
NetBIOS
names which are at most 16 characters and which use the final character to
represent different services (much as ports do in basic TCP or UDP).

[All NetBIOS names are padded out to 15 characters with spaces when put
onto the network, then the 16th character is used to distinguish the
service.]

Just make up a name that is sensible for the NetBIOS name. The only real
disadvantage is that people might become confused or be unable to "guess"
the names from nothing the other one.

Herb Martin wrote:
> "DJPogoff" <djpogoff_at_complexNOSPAMnet_dot_com> wrote in message
> news:72321713-03A2-49AD-AAF9-330CD26A504A@microsoft.com...
>> I'm using the AD Installation Wizard in Win2K3. The part of the DNS name
>> before ".com" is longer than 14 characters. Is there any way to override
>> what appears to be a 14-character limit to the NetBIOS name or must I
>> choose
>> a name that is different from the level two part of the DNS name?
>
> No, because that limit (15 character's actually) is hard coded into all
> NetBIOS
> names which are at most 16 characters and which use the final character to
> represent different services (much as ports do in basic TCP or UDP).
>
> [All NetBIOS names are padded out to 15 characters with spaces when put
> onto the network, then the 16th character is used to distinguish the
> service.]
>
> Just make up a name that is sensible for the NetBIOS name. The only real
> disadvantage is that people might become confused or be unable to "guess"
> the names from nothing the other one.
>
---------------------
Richard, Paul, Herb,

THanks to you all for your help. I've often wondered why Microsoft
cannot just dump the whole NetBIOS concept and use DNS like the rest of
the Internet and operating systems. I can't see that the NetBIOS
paradigm provides much that is valuable other than, when combined with
WINS, it gives users the ability to browse based on broadcasting (or is
it multicasting?) which cannot be transmitted past certain boundaries
such as VPN tunnels anyway. Moreover, I'm not convinced that NetBIOS
and WINS are the only services which can enable "browsing" in Windows
Explorer.

Windows networking would be somewhat simpler certainly if WINS were gone
and I also would have no hesitation seeing the NetBIOS concept gone.
I'd much rather log on to Windows domains specifying that I'm loggin on
to abc.com rather than to ABC.

Feedback? Am I being naive here?

Thanks much,

David

"David" <djpogoff@complexNOSPAMnet.com> wrote in message
news:47F66C1F.4000107@complexNOSPAMnet.com...
> Herb Martin wrote:
>> "DJPogoff" <djpogoff_at_complexNOSPAMnet_dot_com> wrote in message
>> news:72321713-03A2-49AD-AAF9-330CD26A504A@microsoft.com...
>>> I'm using the AD Installation Wizard in Win2K3. The part of the DNS
>>> name
>>> before ".com" is longer than 14 characters. Is there any way to
>>> override
>>> what appears to be a 14-character limit to the NetBIOS name or must I
>>> choose
>>> a name that is different from the level two part of the DNS name?
>>
>> No, because that limit (15 character's actually) is hard coded into all
>> NetBIOS
>> names which are at most 16 characters and which use the final character
>> to
>> represent different services (much as ports do in basic TCP or UDP).
>>
>> [All NetBIOS names are padded out to 15 characters with spaces when put
>> onto the network, then the 16th character is used to distinguish the
>> service.]
>>
>> Just make up a name that is sensible for the NetBIOS name. The only real
>> disadvantage is that people might become confused or be unable to "guess"
>> the names from nothing the other one.
>>
> ---------------------
> Richard, Paul, Herb,
>
> THanks to you all for your help. I've often wondered why Microsoft cannot
> just dump the whole NetBIOS concept and use DNS like the rest of the
> Internet and operating systems.

Because certain Legacy Applications and Operating Systems are still based on
NetBIOS.

Most important for most people is Browsing which is a Legacy NetBIOS
application.


> I can't see that the NetBIOS paradigm provides much that is valuable other
> than, when combined with WINS, it gives users the ability to browse based
> on broadcasting (or is it multicasting?)

Broadcasting for NetBIOS alone -- WINS helps to eliminate that since it
works similarly to DNS, using datagrams for registration and resolution
requrests.

> which cannot be transmitted past certain boundaries such as VPN tunnels
> anyway.

It is not the VPN per se that is the problem, but the ROUTERS which
typically are at either endpoint of the VPN.

By default, Routers don't transmit broadcasts.

> Moreover, I'm not convinced that NetBIOS and WINS are the only services
> which can enable "browsing" in Windows Explorer.

NetBIOS is since Browsing is a NetBIOS applciation.

WINS makes it work across routers.

> Windows networking would be somewhat simpler certainly if WINS were gone
> and I also would have no hesitation seeing the NetBIOS concept gone.

Not particularly -- WINS is no big deal; mostly is SOLVES problems although
the naive among admins seem to get this relationship backwards pretty often.

> I'd much rather log on to Windows domains specifying that I'm loggin on to
> abc.com rather than to ABC.

That's is irrelevant to the Browsing and NetBIOS issue as the (modern)
systems
can now use DNS to logon (DC) discovery and to authenticate in general.

> Feedback? Am I being naive here?

A bit. And you are placing the blame off-center from where it belongs.

The easy way to fix this stuff would be to create a new registration and
resolution
MODE for NetBIOS: DNS.

Resolution already works (partially) through FAIL OVER to DNS methods, but
NetBIOS clients and servers have no concept of using SRV (or some other)
records for rendezvous and location service.

> Thanks much,
>
> David

I have spoken with some folks from Microsoft who swear up and down that
DNS-GlobalNames-Zones is not a replacement for WINS (In 2008) it sure seems
to me though that someone had some idea of a way to remove some of the
reasons to have WINS.

See the White paper on DNS Server GlobalNames Zone Deployment
http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/n.../bb629410.aspx

--
Paul Bergson
MVP - Directory Services
MCT, MCSE, MCSA, Security+, BS CSci
2008, 2003, 2000 (Early Achiever), NT4

http://www.pbbergs.com

Please no e-mails, any questions should be posted in the NewsGroup
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

"Herb Martin" <news@learnquick.com> wrote in message
news:%23RpaInzlIHA.5660@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>
> "David" <djpogoff@complexNOSPAMnet.com> wrote in message
> news:47F66C1F.4000107@complexNOSPAMnet.com...
>> Herb Martin wrote:
>>> "DJPogoff" <djpogoff_at_complexNOSPAMnet_dot_com> wrote in message
>>> news:72321713-03A2-49AD-AAF9-330CD26A504A@microsoft.com...
>>>> I'm using the AD Installation Wizard in Win2K3. The part of the DNS
>>>> name
>>>> before ".com" is longer than 14 characters. Is there any way to
>>>> override
>>>> what appears to be a 14-character limit to the NetBIOS name or must I
>>>> choose
>>>> a name that is different from the level two part of the DNS name?
>>>
>>> No, because that limit (15 character's actually) is hard coded into all
>>> NetBIOS
>>> names which are at most 16 characters and which use the final character
>>> to
>>> represent different services (much as ports do in basic TCP or UDP).
>>>
>>> [All NetBIOS names are padded out to 15 characters with spaces when put
>>> onto the network, then the 16th character is used to distinguish the
>>> service.]
>>>
>>> Just make up a name that is sensible for the NetBIOS name. The only
>>> real
>>> disadvantage is that people might become confused or be unable to
>>> "guess"
>>> the names from nothing the other one.
>>>
>> ---------------------
>> Richard, Paul, Herb,
>>
>> THanks to you all for your help. I've often wondered why Microsoft
>> cannot just dump the whole NetBIOS concept and use DNS like the rest of
>> the Internet and operating systems.
>
> Because certain Legacy Applications and Operating Systems are still based
> on
> NetBIOS.
>
> Most important for most people is Browsing which is a Legacy NetBIOS
> application.
>
>
>> I can't see that the NetBIOS paradigm provides much that is valuable
>> other than, when combined with WINS, it gives users the ability to browse
>> based on broadcasting (or is it multicasting?)
>
> Broadcasting for NetBIOS alone -- WINS helps to eliminate that since it
> works similarly to DNS, using datagrams for registration and resolution
> requrests.
>
>> which cannot be transmitted past certain boundaries such as VPN tunnels
>> anyway.
>
> It is not the VPN per se that is the problem, but the ROUTERS which
> typically are at either endpoint of the VPN.
>
> By default, Routers don't transmit broadcasts.
>
>> Moreover, I'm not convinced that NetBIOS and WINS are the only services
>> which can enable "browsing" in Windows Explorer.
>
> NetBIOS is since Browsing is a NetBIOS applciation.
>
> WINS makes it work across routers.
>
>> Windows networking would be somewhat simpler certainly if WINS were gone
>> and I also would have no hesitation seeing the NetBIOS concept gone.
>
> Not particularly -- WINS is no big deal; mostly is SOLVES problems
> although
> the naive among admins seem to get this relationship backwards pretty
> often.
>
>> I'd much rather log on to Windows domains specifying that I'm loggin on
>> to abc.com rather than to ABC.
>
> That's is irrelevant to the Browsing and NetBIOS issue as the (modern)
> systems
> can now use DNS to logon (DC) discovery and to authenticate in general.
>
>> Feedback? Am I being naive here?
>
> A bit. And you are placing the blame off-center from where it belongs.
>
> The easy way to fix this stuff would be to create a new registration and
> resolution
> MODE for NetBIOS: DNS.
>
> Resolution already works (partially) through FAIL OVER to DNS methods, but
> NetBIOS clients and servers have no concept of using SRV (or some other)
> records for rendezvous and location service.
>
>> Thanks much,
>>
>> David
>
>

"Paul Bergson [MVP-DS]" <pbergson@allete_nospam.com> wrote in message
news:e%233Cr$KmIHA.1208@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>I have spoken with some folks from Microsoft who swear up and down that
>DNS-GlobalNames-Zones is not a replacement for WINS (In 2008) it sure seems
>to me though that someone had some idea of a way to remove some of the
>reasons to have WINS.

I will have to go read that, but I still don't see why they couldn't create
a
new NetBIOS name resolution Node-type, DNS, analogous (precisely)
to what they did when WINS (NBNS) was first released and nodes were
enhanced to eliminate the complete dependence on broadcasts.

SRV records now exist and there is no reason this couldn't even be
site specific (as an additional optimization, not the primary method) for
a cheap way to get DFS resolution too.

> See the White paper on DNS Server GlobalNames Zone Deployment
> http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/n.../bb629410.aspx
>
> --
> Paul Bergson
> MVP - Directory Services
> MCT, MCSE, MCSA, Security+, BS CSci
> 2008, 2003, 2000 (Early Achiever), NT4
>
> http://www.pbbergs.com
>
> Please no e-mails, any questions should be posted in the NewsGroup
> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
> rights.
>
> "Herb Martin" <news@learnquick.com> wrote in message
> news:%23RpaInzlIHA.5660@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>
>> "David" <djpogoff@complexNOSPAMnet.com> wrote in message
>> news:47F66C1F.4000107@complexNOSPAMnet.com...
>>> Herb Martin wrote:
>>>> "DJPogoff" <djpogoff_at_complexNOSPAMnet_dot_com> wrote in message
>>>> news:72321713-03A2-49AD-AAF9-330CD26A504A@microsoft.com...
>>>>> I'm using the AD Installation Wizard in Win2K3. The part of the DNS
>>>>> name
>>>>> before ".com" is longer than 14 characters. Is there any way to
>>>>> override
>>>>> what appears to be a 14-character limit to the NetBIOS name or must I
>>>>> choose
>>>>> a name that is different from the level two part of the DNS name?
>>>>
>>>> No, because that limit (15 character's actually) is hard coded into all
>>>> NetBIOS
>>>> names which are at most 16 characters and which use the final character
>>>> to
>>>> represent different services (much as ports do in basic TCP or UDP).
>>>>
>>>> [All NetBIOS names are padded out to 15 characters with spaces when put
>>>> onto the network, then the 16th character is used to distinguish the
>>>> service.]
>>>>
>>>> Just make up a name that is sensible for the NetBIOS name. The only
>>>> real
>>>> disadvantage is that people might become confused or be unable to
>>>> "guess"
>>>> the names from nothing the other one.
>>>>
>>> ---------------------
>>> Richard, Paul, Herb,
>>>
>>> THanks to you all for your help. I've often wondered why Microsoft
>>> cannot just dump the whole NetBIOS concept and use DNS like the rest of
>>> the Internet and operating systems.
>>
>> Because certain Legacy Applications and Operating Systems are still based
>> on
>> NetBIOS.
>>
>> Most important for most people is Browsing which is a Legacy NetBIOS
>> application.
>>
>>
>>> I can't see that the NetBIOS paradigm provides much that is valuable
>>> other than, when combined with WINS, it gives users the ability to
>>> browse based on broadcasting (or is it multicasting?)
>>
>> Broadcasting for NetBIOS alone -- WINS helps to eliminate that since it
>> works similarly to DNS, using datagrams for registration and resolution
>> requrests.
>>
>>> which cannot be transmitted past certain boundaries such as VPN tunnels
>>> anyway.
>>
>> It is not the VPN per se that is the problem, but the ROUTERS which
>> typically are at either endpoint of the VPN.
>>
>> By default, Routers don't transmit broadcasts.
>>
>>> Moreover, I'm not convinced that NetBIOS and WINS are the only services
>>> which can enable "browsing" in Windows Explorer.
>>
>> NetBIOS is since Browsing is a NetBIOS applciation.
>>
>> WINS makes it work across routers.
>>
>>> Windows networking would be somewhat simpler certainly if WINS were gone
>>> and I also would have no hesitation seeing the NetBIOS concept gone.
>>
>> Not particularly -- WINS is no big deal; mostly is SOLVES problems
>> although
>> the naive among admins seem to get this relationship backwards pretty
>> often.
>>
>>> I'd much rather log on to Windows domains specifying that I'm loggin on
>>> to abc.com rather than to ABC.
>>
>> That's is irrelevant to the Browsing and NetBIOS issue as the (modern)
>> systems
>> can now use DNS to logon (DC) discovery and to authenticate in general.
>>
>>> Feedback? Am I being naive here?
>>
>> A bit. And you are placing the blame off-center from where it belongs.
>>
>> The easy way to fix this stuff would be to create a new registration and
>> resolution
>> MODE for NetBIOS: DNS.
>>
>> Resolution already works (partially) through FAIL OVER to DNS methods,
>> but
>> NetBIOS clients and servers have no concept of using SRV (or some other)
>> records for rendezvous and location service.
>>
>>> Thanks much,
>>>
>>> David
>>
>>
>
>

This wasn't directed to you Herb, but to DJPogoff

--
Paul Bergson
MVP - Directory Services
MCT, MCSE, MCSA, Security+, BS CSci
2008, 2003, 2000 (Early Achiever), NT4

http://www.pbbergs.com

Please no e-mails, any questions should be posted in the NewsGroup
This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

"Herb Martin" <news@learnquick.com> wrote in message
news:u7ZuJBRmIHA.1052@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>
> "Paul Bergson [MVP-DS]" <pbergson@allete_nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:e%233Cr$KmIHA.1208@TK2MSFTNGP05.phx.gbl...
>>I have spoken with some folks from Microsoft who swear up and down that
>>DNS-GlobalNames-Zones is not a replacement for WINS (In 2008) it sure
>>seems to me though that someone had some idea of a way to remove some of
>>the reasons to have WINS.
>
> I will have to go read that, but I still don't see why they couldn't
> create a
> new NetBIOS name resolution Node-type, DNS, analogous (precisely)
> to what they did when WINS (NBNS) was first released and nodes were
> enhanced to eliminate the complete dependence on broadcasts.
>
> SRV records now exist and there is no reason this couldn't even be
> site specific (as an additional optimization, not the primary method) for
> a cheap way to get DFS resolution too.
>
>> See the White paper on DNS Server GlobalNames Zone Deployment
>> http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/n.../bb629410.aspx
>>
>> --
>> Paul Bergson
>> MVP - Directory Services
>> MCT, MCSE, MCSA, Security+, BS CSci
>> 2008, 2003, 2000 (Early Achiever), NT4
>>
>> http://www.pbbergs.com
>>
>> Please no e-mails, any questions should be posted in the NewsGroup
>> This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no
>> rights.
>>
>> "Herb Martin" <news@learnquick.com> wrote in message
>> news:%23RpaInzlIHA.5660@TK2MSFTNGP02.phx.gbl...
>>>
>>> "David" <djpogoff@complexNOSPAMnet.com> wrote in message
>>> news:47F66C1F.4000107@complexNOSPAMnet.com...
>>>> Herb Martin wrote:
>>>>> "DJPogoff" <djpogoff_at_complexNOSPAMnet_dot_com> wrote in message
>>>>> news:72321713-03A2-49AD-AAF9-330CD26A504A@microsoft.com...
>>>>>> I'm using the AD Installation Wizard in Win2K3. The part of the DNS
>>>>>> name
>>>>>> before ".com" is longer than 14 characters. Is there any way to
>>>>>> override
>>>>>> what appears to be a 14-character limit to the NetBIOS name or must I
>>>>>> choose
>>>>>> a name that is different from the level two part of the DNS name?
>>>>>
>>>>> No, because that limit (15 character's actually) is hard coded into
>>>>> all NetBIOS
>>>>> names which are at most 16 characters and which use the final
>>>>> character to
>>>>> represent different services (much as ports do in basic TCP or UDP).
>>>>>
>>>>> [All NetBIOS names are padded out to 15 characters with spaces when
>>>>> put
>>>>> onto the network, then the 16th character is used to distinguish the
>>>>> service.]
>>>>>
>>>>> Just make up a name that is sensible for the NetBIOS name. The only
>>>>> real
>>>>> disadvantage is that people might become confused or be unable to
>>>>> "guess"
>>>>> the names from nothing the other one.
>>>>>
>>>> ---------------------
>>>> Richard, Paul, Herb,
>>>>
>>>> THanks to you all for your help. I've often wondered why Microsoft
>>>> cannot just dump the whole NetBIOS concept and use DNS like the rest of
>>>> the Internet and operating systems.
>>>
>>> Because certain Legacy Applications and Operating Systems are still
>>> based on
>>> NetBIOS.
>>>
>>> Most important for most people is Browsing which is a Legacy NetBIOS
>>> application.
>>>
>>>
>>>> I can't see that the NetBIOS paradigm provides much that is valuable
>>>> other than, when combined with WINS, it gives users the ability to
>>>> browse based on broadcasting (or is it multicasting?)
>>>
>>> Broadcasting for NetBIOS alone -- WINS helps to eliminate that since it
>>> works similarly to DNS, using datagrams for registration and resolution
>>> requrests.
>>>
>>>> which cannot be transmitted past certain boundaries such as VPN tunnels
>>>> anyway.
>>>
>>> It is not the VPN per se that is the problem, but the ROUTERS which
>>> typically are at either endpoint of the VPN.
>>>
>>> By default, Routers don't transmit broadcasts.
>>>
>>>> Moreover, I'm not convinced that NetBIOS and WINS are the only services
>>>> which can enable "browsing" in Windows Explorer.
>>>
>>> NetBIOS is since Browsing is a NetBIOS applciation.
>>>
>>> WINS makes it work across routers.
>>>
>>>> Windows networking would be somewhat simpler certainly if WINS were
>>>> gone and I also would have no hesitation seeing the NetBIOS concept
>>>> gone.
>>>
>>> Not particularly -- WINS is no big deal; mostly is SOLVES problems
>>> although
>>> the naive among admins seem to get this relationship backwards pretty
>>> often.
>>>
>>>> I'd much rather log on to Windows domains specifying that I'm loggin on
>>>> to abc.com rather than to ABC.
>>>
>>> That's is irrelevant to the Browsing and NetBIOS issue as the (modern)
>>> systems
>>> can now use DNS to logon (DC) discovery and to authenticate in general.
>>>
>>>> Feedback? Am I being naive here?
>>>
>>> A bit. And you are placing the blame off-center from where it belongs.
>>>
>>> The easy way to fix this stuff would be to create a new registration and
>>> resolution
>>> MODE for NetBIOS: DNS.
>>>
>>> Resolution already works (partially) through FAIL OVER to DNS methods,
>>> but
>>> NetBIOS clients and servers have no concept of using SRV (or some other)
>>> records for rendezvous and location service.
>>>
>>>> Thanks much,
>>>>
>>>> David
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>