Rename and join a computer to the domain at the same time???

Hi, had just face a problem with a server that suddendly removed himself from
the domain with no human intervention.

I'l try to explain what the problem was (we were able to reproduce it so I
think anyone who read this can also give it a try):
1. Server "A.domain.local" was working perfectly as a member of the domain
2. We prepared another server called A but as a member of a workgroup.
3. Then, on the workgroup server we went to "My Computer - Properties -
Computer Name - Change" and typed "B" as the server name and typed
domain.local as the domain name. Hit Ok and provided admin credentials and we
got the "Welcome to the domain" message.
4. Restart the new computer but then the old computer object
(A.domain.local) was gone!! and the new computer object B.domain.local worked
just fine.

So my question is: Is this behavior by design which I don't think it is.

I know that if you try to join a computer to a domain with the same name as
an existing one Windows give you an error message. But this behavior is like
the name verification uses the new computer name but the join process runs
with the old name and if it is in use you'll face a problem that looks just
like if somebody deleted the computer object in Active Directory.

Domain Controllers are running Windows Server 2003 R2, servers running
Windows Server 2003 and we reproduced the behavior with Windows XP
Professional Service Pack 2.

Hello Glenn,

To prevent this kind of problems, you always have to stick to the naming
convention, that means never use two machines with the same name.

Best regards

Meinolf Weber
Disclaimer: This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers
no rights.
** Please do NOT email, only reply to Newsgroups
** HELP us help YOU!!! http://www.blakjak.demon.co.uk/mul_crss.htm

> Hi, had just face a problem with a server that suddendly removed
> himself from the domain with no human intervention.
>
> I'l try to explain what the problem was (we were able to reproduce it
> so I
> think anyone who read this can also give it a try):
> 1. Server "A.domain.local" was working perfectly as a member of the
> domain
> 2. We prepared another server called A but as a member of a workgroup.
> 3. Then, on the workgroup server we went to "My Computer - Properties
> -
> Computer Name - Change" and typed "B" as the server name and typed
> domain.local as the domain name. Hit Ok and provided admin credentials
> and we
> got the "Welcome to the domain" message.
> 4. Restart the new computer but then the old computer object
> (A.domain.local) was gone!! and the new computer object B.domain.local
> worked
> just fine.
> So my question is: Is this behavior by design which I don't think it
> is.
>
> I know that if you try to join a computer to a domain with the same
> name as an existing one Windows give you an error message. But this
> behavior is like the name verification uses the new computer name but
> the join process runs with the old name and if it is in use you'll
> face a problem that looks just like if somebody deleted the computer
> object in Active Directory.
>
> Domain Controllers are running Windows Server 2003 R2, servers running
> Windows Server 2003 and we reproduced the behavior with Windows XP
> Professional Service Pack 2.
>

If I try to join a computer to a domain with the same name as an existing one
Windows shows a message saying that I can't.

I think the scenario described should be taken in consideration to do some
kind of validation in the case of a computer rename and a domain join at the
same time specially if we take in consideration that regular users can join
up to 10 computers to the domain by default.

"Meinolf Weber" wrote:

> Hello Glenn,
>
> To prevent this kind of problems, you always have to stick to the naming
> convention, that means never use two machines with the same name.
>
> Best regards
>
> Meinolf Weber
> Disclaimer: This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers
> no rights.
> ** Please do NOT email, only reply to Newsgroups
> ** HELP us help YOU!!! http://www.blakjak.demon.co.uk/mul_crss.htm
>
> > Hi, had just face a problem with a server that suddendly removed
> > himself from the domain with no human intervention.
> >
> > I'l try to explain what the problem was (we were able to reproduce it
> > so I
> > think anyone who read this can also give it a try):
> > 1. Server "A.domain.local" was working perfectly as a member of the
> > domain
> > 2. We prepared another server called A but as a member of a workgroup.
> > 3. Then, on the workgroup server we went to "My Computer - Properties
> > -
> > Computer Name - Change" and typed "B" as the server name and typed
> > domain.local as the domain name. Hit Ok and provided admin credentials
> > and we
> > got the "Welcome to the domain" message.
> > 4. Restart the new computer but then the old computer object
> > (A.domain.local) was gone!! and the new computer object B.domain.local
> > worked
> > just fine.
> > So my question is: Is this behavior by design which I don't think it
> > is.
> >
> > I know that if you try to join a computer to a domain with the same
> > name as an existing one Windows give you an error message. But this
> > behavior is like the name verification uses the new computer name but
> > the join process runs with the old name and if it is in use you'll
> > face a problem that looks just like if somebody deleted the computer
> > object in Active Directory.
> >
> > Domain Controllers are running Windows Server 2003 R2, servers running
> > Windows Server 2003 and we reproduced the behavior with Windows XP
> > Professional Service Pack 2.
> >
>
>
>

Hello Glenn,

The point is that, afaik this tasks not/never will be done together. Even
if you image machines you have to use syprep to prevent the same SID and
ofcourse it asks you for a new machine name. And the value from 10 you can
always change.

Best regards

Meinolf Weber
Disclaimer: This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers
no rights.
** Please do NOT email, only reply to Newsgroups
** HELP us help YOU!!! http://www.blakjak.demon.co.uk/mul_crss.htm

> If I try to join a computer to a domain with the same name as an
> existing one Windows shows a message saying that I can't.
>
> I think the scenario described should be taken in consideration to do
> some kind of validation in the case of a computer rename and a domain
> join at the same time specially if we take in consideration that
> regular users can join up to 10 computers to the domain by default.
>
> "Meinolf Weber" wrote:
>
>> Hello Glenn,
>>
>> To prevent this kind of problems, you always have to stick to the
>> naming convention, that means never use two machines with the same
>> name.
>>
>> Best regards
>>
>> Meinolf Weber
>> Disclaimer: This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and
>> confers
>> no rights.
>> ** Please do NOT email, only reply to Newsgroups
>> ** HELP us help YOU!!! http://www.blakjak.demon.co.uk/mul_crss.htm
>>> Hi, had just face a problem with a server that suddendly removed
>>> himself from the domain with no human intervention.
>>>
>>> I'l try to explain what the problem was (we were able to reproduce
>>> it
>>> so I
>>> think anyone who read this can also give it a try):
>>> 1. Server "A.domain.local" was working perfectly as a member of the
>>> domain
>>> 2. We prepared another server called A but as a member of a
>>> workgroup.
>>> 3. Then, on the workgroup server we went to "My Computer -
>>> Properties
>>> -
>>> Computer Name - Change" and typed "B" as the server name and typed
>>> domain.local as the domain name. Hit Ok and provided admin
>>> credentials
>>> and we
>>> got the "Welcome to the domain" message.
>>> 4. Restart the new computer but then the old computer object
>>> (A.domain.local) was gone!! and the new computer object
>>> B.domain.local
>>> worked
>>> just fine.
>>> So my question is: Is this behavior by design which I don't think it
>>> is.
>>> I know that if you try to join a computer to a domain with the same
>>> name as an existing one Windows give you an error message. But this
>>> behavior is like the name verification uses the new computer name
>>> but the join process runs with the old name and if it is in use
>>> you'll face a problem that looks just like if somebody deleted the
>>> computer object in Active Directory.
>>>
>>> Domain Controllers are running Windows Server 2003 R2, servers
>>> running Windows Server 2003 and we reproduced the behavior with
>>> Windows XP Professional Service Pack 2.
>>>

I agree with you, rename the computer and join it to a domain is not a task
that should be done at the same time, I also agree with you that install a
computer from scratch and name it as an existing one is not a good practice
but don't you think Microsoft should modify the software to avoid the
scenario I mentioned?

"Meinolf Weber" wrote:

> Hello Glenn,
>
> The point is that, afaik this tasks not/never will be done together. Even
> if you image machines you have to use syprep to prevent the same SID and
> ofcourse it asks you for a new machine name. And the value from 10 you can
> always change.
>
> Best regards
>
> Meinolf Weber
> Disclaimer: This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers
> no rights.
> ** Please do NOT email, only reply to Newsgroups
> ** HELP us help YOU!!! http://www.blakjak.demon.co.uk/mul_crss.htm
>
> > If I try to join a computer to a domain with the same name as an
> > existing one Windows shows a message saying that I can't.
> >
> > I think the scenario described should be taken in consideration to do
> > some kind of validation in the case of a computer rename and a domain
> > join at the same time specially if we take in consideration that
> > regular users can join up to 10 computers to the domain by default.
> >
> > "Meinolf Weber" wrote:
> >
> >> Hello Glenn,
> >>
> >> To prevent this kind of problems, you always have to stick to the
> >> naming convention, that means never use two machines with the same
> >> name.
> >>
> >> Best regards
> >>
> >> Meinolf Weber
> >> Disclaimer: This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and
> >> confers
> >> no rights.
> >> ** Please do NOT email, only reply to Newsgroups
> >> ** HELP us help YOU!!! http://www.blakjak.demon.co.uk/mul_crss.htm
> >>> Hi, had just face a problem with a server that suddendly removed
> >>> himself from the domain with no human intervention.
> >>>
> >>> I'l try to explain what the problem was (we were able to reproduce
> >>> it
> >>> so I
> >>> think anyone who read this can also give it a try):
> >>> 1. Server "A.domain.local" was working perfectly as a member of the
> >>> domain
> >>> 2. We prepared another server called A but as a member of a
> >>> workgroup.
> >>> 3. Then, on the workgroup server we went to "My Computer -
> >>> Properties
> >>> -
> >>> Computer Name - Change" and typed "B" as the server name and typed
> >>> domain.local as the domain name. Hit Ok and provided admin
> >>> credentials
> >>> and we
> >>> got the "Welcome to the domain" message.
> >>> 4. Restart the new computer but then the old computer object
> >>> (A.domain.local) was gone!! and the new computer object
> >>> B.domain.local
> >>> worked
> >>> just fine.
> >>> So my question is: Is this behavior by design which I don't think it
> >>> is.
> >>> I know that if you try to join a computer to a domain with the same
> >>> name as an existing one Windows give you an error message. But this
> >>> behavior is like the name verification uses the new computer name
> >>> but the join process runs with the old name and if it is in use
> >>> you'll face a problem that looks just like if somebody deleted the
> >>> computer object in Active Directory.
> >>>
> >>> Domain Controllers are running Windows Server 2003 R2, servers
> >>> running Windows Server 2003 and we reproduced the behavior with
> >>> Windows XP Professional Service Pack 2.
> >>>
>
>
>